Money is a taboo topic for churches, and there has been some ministries that have brought disrepute to the gospel through the misuse of money, Yet we need to manage and talk about money and generosity as churches not just for budgets but because money management is a part of being a disciple.
Jo talks with Tish Maier, Reach Australia’s Support Manager, about how and why ministers need to talk about generosity.
SHOW NOTES:
The Generosity Project – a 6 part interactive resource from Matthias Media aimed at shifting the culture of generosity in our churches, in a positive way. –
Rod Irvine talking about generosity to church plants
Longer talk from Rod Irvine on raising resources for churches
CREDITS:
The One Thing is brought to you by Reach Australia.
For ideas or questions please email [email protected]
To support the Reach Australia Online Library head here.
TRANSCRIPT:
Jo
G’day. I’m Joe Gibbs and welcome to the One Thing, a podcast designed to give you one solid practical tip for gospel centered ministry. Every week the One Thing brought to you thanks to reach Australia, we love to see thousands of healthy evangelistic and multiplying churches. Well, today we talking about the thing we never like to talk about in churches, and that’s money in Australian culture.
Money’s a bit of an awkward, taboo topic. And let’s face it, in the last few years have been a number of churches that have brought the Gospel into disrepute just because of the way that they’ve handled money. Now, money is just one element of support raising, but there’s so much more to it than that. And to join us today to talk about support raising, we have our very own Tish Maier, who is the support raising manager for Reach Australia.
Jo
Welcome, Tish.
Tish
Thank you.
Jo
Well, it’s been great to have you on the team since January, February now keeping count. What’s been one highlight of being part of the Reach Australia team so far?
Tish
I think one highlight would definitely be just getting to know the team and working with so many people who are so passionate about Jesus and seeing people come to know and love him and want to give their lives to help people who spend their lives getting people to know Jesus. Introducing people to Jesus. Yeah, it’s a pretty great team.
Tish
It is a pretty great team.
Jo
Great. Yeah, that’s a great place to work. It’s fantastic. Great to have you on the team, but for now, you press play on another episode of The One Thing. How does my church raise more money?
Well, do you often talk about support raising rather than fundraising? Now, what’s the difference between the two? Are you just coming up with a new term so we feel less uncomfortable about it? Or is there a real difference?
Tish
I think the difference between fund raising and support raising is probably in that first sound, in that fundraising doesn’t encompass prayer, it doesn’t encompass the way that people serve with their time and their wisdom in being generous with that and in support raising. We’re thinking about generosity of the whole of people’s lives in the way that they support. In this case, reach Australia or your church. And so we don’t just want support in funds, but we want support in everything and we don’t want it to just be short one off. We want a long term partnership in the gospel, whether you’re a church or whether you’re someone supporting rich Australia.
Jo
And it’s so encouraging because people can be generous in a whole bunch of different ways. And so it’s kind of thinking about that wholehearted generosity across our whole lives. Now is support raising just part of church, being kind of an organization. We have budgets and spreadsheets and all that kind of stuff. Do you think there’s something uniquely as Christians that we have to bring to this space?
Tish
I think as Christians we respond to the gospel because God is generous to us, so we respond with generosity. The Gospel is ultimately a message of God’s generosity to us, and we leave that out. And so it is talking about generosity. We’re talking about a mode of discipleship with discipling people in responding to Jesus and in responding to God. And that’s where our generosity overflows from. We see how God is good to us, and so we want to respond in that way.
Jo
And I love that because it means that we can be joyful in our giving, in our generosity, because we’ve already been given so much more. So it’s a really great place to start Now, as churches, we do need money and other forms of support to keep ministry growing. We need people to pray and we need people to give out their time if it’s so essential to how churches run. Why do you think it’s often not on leaders’ agendas?
Tish
I think you hinted at the beginning when you said that it’s a taboo topic in our culture, in our society. I think that’s infected our churches. We know that Jesus talked about money quite a lot. He warned against it and he talked about being generous and giving. And it’s all throughout Paul’s letters as well. And I think we sometimes steer away from those things because they’re hard and they’re difficult and they make ministers feel a bit nervous when they know that they’re funded because of the generosity of their church. But really, it’s a part of the Bible and we shouldn’t steer away from that. And we need to reflect what’s in God’s Word. And so he should be talking about generosity. And the reality is that the church has always gone on to continue because of the generosity of God’s people. That’s the picture we see in the stories we see from ACT and in Luke and throughout the Bible.
Jo
Yeah, it’s great. We see it throughout the Bible and you’re raising it as an all of life discipleship issue, not just part of your life, but your whole life. Yeah. Given over to the gospel and to following Jesus. All right, Well, if he had a bunch of gospel workers in the room right now, what would you say to them about support raising?
Tish
I think the top three things are not in any particular hierarchical order would be one don’t be scared. As I said before, it’s in the Bible. It’s the way that the church has always continued is because God has used his people to provide for his mission. And that’s the way it will continue. God will continue to use his people to provide for his mission. And so we don’t need to be scared to talk about it. The second thing is that it’s not ours anyway, and so you shouldn’t be hesitant to ask people to share in what they have because it’s not theirs, really. It’s God’s gift to be given and for his purposes, his good purposes, and for his kingdom. And there’s a real joy. I think I would probably say I think it’s a really joyous thing for someone to give. It’s joy in the Lord. It’s joy in partnership with you. It’s joy in seeing God’s kingdom continue to go out and grow. So don’t be scared. Remember, it’s from God and it’s a really joyful thing and rejoice in the Lord in that.
Jo
So if we took all of those gospel workers out of the room and brought in a bunch of church members into the room, what would you say to them about supporting their church?
Tish
There’s a verse that when I read it the other day, I thought, Oh, this is basically our culture. And maybe that tells you a bit about me and the world that I live in. But it’s in two Corinthians chapter over seven. But since you excel in everything in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness, and in the love we have kindled in, you see that you also excel in this grace of you. I think in the church that I’m in, we pride ourselves on our knowledge and love of God and our love for one another and the way that we speak to one another and care for one another and respond to God in faith. But I think there’s so much more room for us to be generous in the way that we support people in ministry and support Christian work and generosity generally. I think it’s so easy to buy into a culture of consumerism, but it’s well, I will say it’s better to have more blessed to give than receive.
Jo
But I love how that verse has the word excel in me, because I think we often feel like I shouldn’t let my left hand know what my right hand is doing. It’s all quiet, but this kind of challenged to stretch the boundaries, to be sacrificial, to be really generous as God has been generous to reflect His generosity. So yeah, I love that verse. It’s great.
Tish
And it’s off the back of talking about the Macedonian church that overflowed in generosity despite their own poverty of limitations. Yeah..
Jo
Fantastic. If churches did need to start talking about money because they’re behind budget, what were the first steps they should take?
Tish
I think the first thing they should probably think about is when was the last time they preached on generosity and whether as a church the members are thinking about generosity and understand that from a theological perspective, because real generosity is going to overflow from a real understanding of God’s generosity to us. I think the second thing to do, or maybe it shouldn’t be the first thing is pray, pray about it.
So if you’re going to pray, think whether your church has got it all sorted theologically or even a little bit. Yeah, look at your data. Look at who in your church is and isn’t giving. And maybe think about why. Look at what they’re giving patterns on whether they reflect the demographics of your church and whether it might be because of an issue in the society that you’re in or whether there’s room for growth there. And then think about what are the needs in your church and be really transparent with your church around why you’re behind budget and what the money will be used to be spent on, and whether that’s covering ministers or fixing a fallen down door or getting a keyboard that works, just be nice and clear and transparent.
Jo
You mentioned about finding out the facts, looking at the data, and that’s one thing that our registrar consults our church consults really helpfully push into is what is happening with giving and secondary giving as well. Where would church leaders go to find that kind of data?
Tish
You can find it generally on census data, so you can find average household income number of people per household. You might even be able to find industry information and volunteer hours and things like that.
Jo
So what about at a church where they’re saying month by month a decline in their funds, in their support, raising? What should they be looking at? What’s the right time to press the emergency button?
Tish
I would hope that you wouldn’t get to the emergency button phase. You should be looking at your budget month to month or potentially even more regularly than that, whether that’s a Treasurer or the minister looking at those sorts of things and keeping track. And I would hope that you’re honest with your congregation and speaking to your church about how things are going before it gets to the emergency button phase.
Tish
And again, that means just being transparent and saying this is what we’re using it for, this is how we’re going, and an encouragement to give in response to the truth of the gospel and God’s generosity and what’s needed.
Jo
So it sounds like a nice connection between regular communication about what’s happening between the church leaders and the congregations, but also some vision setting in terms of this is where we’re spending the money. This is the impact in terms of ministry so people can see a connection between what they’re giving and the impact it’s making for the kingdom.
Jo
Really helpful. Thanks, Tish
Tish
I think having a really clear vision is helpful for the church as well in terms of giving, because they know what they’re aiming for and they can be praying for it in terms of coming back to support. Raising is more than just money. Then if you’ve got your church praying for that vision as well and can get behind it in terms of using their gifts and skills and time, then you’re not just going to see gaps in budget, but you’ll hopefully see those filled as well as other ministry areas.
Tish
Yeah,
Jo
If they’re getting behind it, it’s also a point of celebration when those budgets are met, when they’re able to put on that extra staff member or able to buy whatever equipment that’s really desperately needed for kids ministry. But you can celebrate as a church together and give thanks to God. So it’s a great thing to be able to do.
Tish
And I think people can be surprisingly generous.
Jo
Think you’re right. So any thoughts on how we can move someone from currently not giving at church to being a first time giver? Any tips for that?
Tish
I mean, to be honest, I think the the main way well, the first thing would be looking at whether you’ve had teaching on generosity, because often you’ll see a decline where there hasn’t been teaching on generosity. So people just don’t have a very clear understanding of why bother really giving to church. The second thing I’d think about is are you clear on what people’s giving is going to? Because most churches aren’t and making that clear. I mean, I think to be honest, it’s just asking. Most people don’t get asked. And when you ask most people, even if it’s just a little bit if the if it’s a good thing and they trust you thinking to say yes, even if it’s just a little even if it’s just a little bit. So I think the the trust piece is really important.
Jo
So Tish, what’s the one thing you want to say about support?
Tish
Raising the gospel is a message of God’s generosity to us, so we should reflect that in our lives.
Jo
That’s fantastic. Well, in the toolbox this week, we have a number of resources to help you think about support raising, especially for church plants. We have a link to the Generosity Project from Mathias Media, a six part interactive resource aimed at shifting the culture of generosity in our churches in a really positive way. We’ve also got links to two talks from Robert Irvine talking about generosity.
Jo
Now, if you’ve got a topic you’d like us to cover, please email us at Resources at Reach Australia dot com dot. Well, Tish, It’s been great to have you on the one thing today. Thanks so much for coming in.
Tish
Thanks for having me.
Jo
Well, I’m Jo Gibbs. Chat soon.
