[0:02]
Our second speaker tonight is Cathy Heard. Uh as Cathy and Andrew came to the Central Coast 23 years ago uh to plant EV and uh uh Cathy's been of course very active in EV ever since. Uh Cathy's also uh the director of the Women's Coaching Network for Geneva Push. And Cathy, we're all yours. About 22 years ago, maybe 20 years ago,

[0:34]
and for about 8 years, I used to run this night for women in our church. I ran it for women who I knew their last child was about to start school in about 6 or 8 months time. And the point of the night was to encourage them to think about options for their life and what they might do. And my reasoning was, like 6 to 8 months before their last child's going to school, they're starting to think, I wonder what I want to do next year. And I'm thinking to myself, mostly people will just think, I'll go to work, because that's just

[1:05]
what you do. And I wanted uh to sort of put another option in front of women and say, hey, if your finances allow it, how about instead of thinking of a career in the workplace, possibly thinking about a career, and I use that word kind of advisedly, in ministry. Unpaid, treasures in heaven and all that kind of stuff. And I would draw on this night, I would draw this dartboard.

[1:36]
And on the outer circle, I would talk about God's providential work that he does in our world, the work of keeping the world going. Um rain, sun, growing things, upholding the universe. And that he also does through us, Christian and non-Christian, as we serve our communities, so bus drivers and teachers and doctors and nurses and all that kind of stuff, God is working through in order to bless and maintain life on

[2:08]
Earth. Uh and for the Christian, we're meant to do that kind of work in the name of the Lord Jesus and for his glory. And doing it to serve him and not man. But then I would say there's this inner circle. There's this inner circle, which is the special work of God, that in Corinthians is talked about as the work of the Lord and is picked up again in in chapter 16.

[2:41]
And this work, which is kind of the inner circle, is the work of the gospel, the work of saving people, and of establishing people deeply in Christ. The work actually of bringing the word to people. And this is the work that is close to God's heart. It's the work that he sent Jesus to die to save us and send us to do. He calls us to be a part of it. He calls us to give ourselves to it.

[3:12]
And then I would say, the work that we're doing in church is this work. And there's heaps to do. And there's heaps of different ways to be part of this, and would you like to think about joining us and doing ministry in some capacity? An hour, 2 hours, half a day, 3 days, heaps of days. And let me show you some options of where you could get involved. And often through that sort of night,

[3:42]
there'd be quite a positive response back. And as I look back back to those years, there's actually a a of women in leadership positions over the years and and now who were influenced by that night or other conversations like that. But that was then. And this is now. And now, this is actually a topic that makes me really nervous.

[4:12]
Now, if I talk to women about not joining the workforce and instead throwing themselves into ministry in our church, often the response is annoyed, defensive, offended. And the year came when I felt too nervous to run that night. Am I right in thinking that like in the last 10 years or so, there's been this big seismic shift in our culture and in

[4:45]
the way women think? I can't quite put my finger on it, but I feel like women that I'm talking to now in their 20s or early 30s, the mindset is really different. The mindset has changed. They've come out of a very different culture. Andrew can do puppies, I can do grandchildren. 18 months ago, my daughter Rebecca had her first baby.

[5:16]
So, this is Neve at 2 weeks old. And Rebecca was telling me that she got asked this question at this stage, 2-week-old baby, at least once a week. When are you going back to work? And she said it wasn't just coming from a place of I'm curious. The tone was kind of more, "And you should be." And then when she answers, "I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I really want to." There's shock. And the assumption is, "Wow, you must be either really lazy

[5:48]
or very, very rich. It's actually now emotionally hard for women to not get in the paid workforce. It's now anti our culture. It's now almost morally not the right thing to do to not go to work. And so, mobilizing women for ministry in this environment, I think it's become fraught. It feels like a dangerous topic to talk about.

[6:19]
And here's the thing, I think we are seeing a tragedy unfolding in front of us. Think about it. Women since the time of Jesus and the apostles and Paul, they've been involved in gospel growth. In every generation through our whole history, women have been the backbone of the gospel going forward. For centuries, it's been women who have been able to give hours and hours of of time of ministry time to church.

[6:51]
Now, I feel like we're looking down the barrel of a future where this is starting to slip away from us. I feel like we're losing a generation, generations of women to the paid workforce and some of them we didn't need to lose. They don't particularly want or need to be there. And it's like all that skill, that knowledge, that time, that energy, that capacity to reach our communities to the gospel, that's lost from our churches.

[7:22]
And I think we're not getting out there quick enough or with enough urgency. We're not doing enough to help women have a different mindset to know how to think differently about this. So, women are coming to us with a fixed mindset about the value of being in the workplace. So, we're going to have to work hard to help them think differently. But yeah, it's really, really tricky. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells when

[7:54]
I raise it. I feel really nervous to say anything. And I feel like I went through this kind of mini crisis. I pulled back quite a few years ago from doing these kind of conversations. And then I got this kind of lightbulb moment. I know, I'll go back to the Bible. And I'll look again at what it says and what it doesn't say. Cuz then that's safe. I I'll know what's true. And so,

[8:26]
the Bible doesn't say ministry good, work bad. Doesn't do that. Doesn't say work is morally wrong for women to pursue. And I know that. I did wonder, did I get hurt saying that? Like I might have. The Bible says there are good reasons to work. A good reason to work is to provide for your family. A good reason to work is not to be a

[8:56]
burden on others. A good reason to work is so that you can give to others. A good reason to work is to not be lazy. And for women who have a family, you already have a work. And there's gospel freedom in how all of this looks, how we work out these responsibilities. Getting my identity, my value, my worth, needing to fulfill my potential, having to use my skills to the fullest, they're

[9:27]
not biblical reasons for going to work. So, when I'm talking to women, they're all going to be different. Some will be working cuz they have to. Some will be working cuz they want to. Some will be working because they are getting their identity and value from work. And some are working and wish they didn't have to and could do more ministry. But to all those people, the command from 1 Corinthians 15 to give yourself fully to the work of the Lord gets

[9:59]
dropped in the middle. What does that mean to give yourself fully? To be abounding, to be overflowing, be excessive, to spend yourself, to allow yourself to be spent, to be a people that know what it is to have God's grace poured into you and so pour it out to others as you can, knowing that as you respond to God's grace in that way, you will produce solid and

[10:29]
lasting effects. So, all of us need to be leaning in to doing gospel work as much as we can. And there's gospel freedom in how that looks. Some of us may have the opportunity to to structure and construct our lives in such a way that we can do more than another person might. Okay, so where have I ended up? Confident. We have something amazing we can offer

[11:01]
women. Something that beats all work, hands down. Something meaningful in the most profound way. A work that lasts into eternity. Ministries done in church are a significant place where people can do this work of the Lord. And some women are in a place where they can construct their lives in such a way that they can do more of this work. Okay, so how do we mobilize these women? Recently I did a survey to about 20 or

[11:33]
so women in our church and across our country where I asked them, "What got you into ministry? What's kept you going doing a lot of ministry?" Number one was having conviction. Number one for these women, all the answers coming back, number one, it was knowing that this matters to God. It was knowing that they could contribute in direct ways of God's work, of saving people, making and growing

[12:04]
disciples, and knowing that this is what we are called to. That impacted them deeply. Now, at this point, I sort of think, "Oh, I've got so many examples of these women. I'm going to give them to you." Emma, Heidi, Karina, Brooke, Tamara, Sarah, Roz, Leslie, Megan, Nicole, Kate, Kim, and Bethany, Leanne, I'm going to tell you all about them. And then I thought, "Oh, that's just talk." Why don't I get a live one up? So, I've asked Mel to come and share.

[12:40]
So, Mel is a dear friend. We've known each other for 20 years, and ministry work, that's been a thing you've had to work at. Can you give us your story? Sure. Hi, everyone. So, um about 15 years ago, I had the wonderful privilege of being able to be involved in our women's ministry. My children were much younger. I had two at home. And um so, I would come along um every Wednesday and run a small group, and I also had the oversight of the women's groups in my congregation. And

[13:12]
so, I would meet with the women, the Bible study leaders, also um two other days a week from time to time. So, I was pretty busy with that. Loved it. Very thankful to God for that opportunity. But I also felt my days were numbered. I knew I had to go back to work, and I was really hoping that somehow I would be able to juggle ministry and work. And then the job offer came. Five half days a week, all mornings.

[13:43]
And I just thought, "Oh, I can't believe that. Couldn't it just be two and a half full days, not five half days?" And I had to let my boss know by 4:00. So, I was shocked. I prayed. I called a friend. I text Cathy. I was hoping she'd say, "You cannot leave me." But, she didn't. She said, "If you need to work, work. Do what you have to do." And so, I did what I had to do. I said

[14:14]
yes to the job, and I cried myself to sleep that night for the first time in many, many years, cuz it was such a grief to give up something that was such a treasure to me. And something that, as Cathy said, um sowing into people's lives that last for eternity, there's nothing like it. But, God in his goodness, um gave me other opportunities, and I was able to get involved in the life course at night,

[14:45]
um a six-week course that ran every term. And so, I got involved in that. And as I was doing that and um being involved in the Summer Fest mission over some holidays, I realized there's a gap. We actually need a life during the day, because there are so many women, and some men, who would love to keep looking into the things of Jesus, but ah, I can't come out at night. My husband doesn't get home till 8:00 p.m.

[15:15]
So, I said to Cathy, along with some other women, "We need to run a a day life." She said, "Talk to Leslie Ramsey, talk to your mission pastor, and see what you can do." And so, we did it. Um and it has just been the greatest of joys to be involved in um a group of just a small group of women and some men come along in during the daytime, the 6-week course, and so many of them go on to do more to life.

[15:47]
Um and I could just tell you story after story of great joy seeing God change and transform people. Thank you. Thank you, Mel. In our churches, we need to grow this conviction. Secondly, mobilizing women. Nothing beats being asked. Personal invite. We need to ask people to do things. Knowing that someone thought I

[16:18]
could do this and wants me to do it is immensely powerful. But it might be that being asked once isn't enough. Sometimes you'll ask and people will say no. But they just might have needed time to get used to the idea, time for the conviction to grow. So, ask and not just once. Be patient, be gentle, no pressure. But give people time. We need to ask.

[16:49]
We need good options. So, if you did have a bunch of skilled, motivated women in your church say, "Yes, I want to do ministry." Do you have places to put them? Do you have ministries to offer them? What could you offer them? Running women's groups, running kids ministries, that is critical. But what if you're not good at that? What else have you got to offer them? One of the things I love about the team pastoring model and the purpose model is that it does give such a breadth and

[17:20]
variety of ministry opportunities for people. Lots of platforms for people to do ministry. Lots of platforms for women to be in leadership positions. Have you got good options? Number four, purpose and structure. Something women love about going to work, apart from the money, is structure. One of the hardest things about being a mom is how purpose, structure, and meaningfulness seems to just disappear. And so I think if we're going to ask

[17:51]
women to make sacrifices, make major life changes, and come into a fuller involvement in our church ministries, we can't then be sloppy with their time and with that sacrifice. We need to be clear with what the role is. What is it they're doing exactly? How will they achieve it? And we need to put in place meetings and structures and supports to make sure it's run well. Relationship. It's hard to keep doing your job if it's lonely.

[18:21]
Most women work better if they're working in relationships. So where are the meetings where she can brainstorm and troubleshoot and get ideas out there? Where are the meetings where she can be influenced and where she can develop in her role? Let's feel the urgency and turn the tide around. Let's pay attention to those five things. So, here was my talk. I'd written this by last Monday. Then on Wednesday, I had a meeting with

[18:52]
four leaders that I work with, and they're leaders of leaders. Between us, we look after about 200 women in the day groups, and this very topic came up. We were sitting around reflecting on the fact that in our day groups, we were missing the 30, 40, early 50-year-olds. And it was it was being a problem. And then one of the girls in the group said to me, "Hey, didn't you used to run that night years ago?" And I went, "Oh my goodness, yes. And I'm about to do a TED Talk on it. Let me

[19:24]
practice it on you. Here's how it goes." And this is where it goes, "I'm too nervous to do that night." And she said to me, "Well, what's the message you would give?" And I went, "Okay, uh if you can, would you give yourself to more ministry in our church? We've got heaps you could do. If you can't, that's okay. All of us need to serve God where we are in the way we can." She said, "We can say that." Let's write a list of women we think we could invite to a night like that, who we think might pick this up. Let's not

[19:56]
make it this huge thing. Small, intimate. Really lovely. Dinner, dessert. Let's do it next term. Let's have Bible discussion. It'll be fun. I'll send you a list of who I'm thinking of. So, later that night, there was an email from Nicole. I was thinking there'd be five names. There were 20. So, that's more than one night. But, that's 20 people who might be willing to think about doing more ministry. So,

[20:27]
I am nervous, but I am feeling confident. And I've got other women working with me who think it's a good idea. And it is a good message. It's true. It's compelling. And I'm going to be careful. There are good reasons for women to be in the workplace. And doing ministry does come in all shapes and sizes. But, we need to have many women who can do more ministry, not do less.

[21:00]
God has called us to give ourselves fully to the work of the Lord as we can, where we can. And women have been doing it for centuries. Let's not be the generation that loses it.