[0:02]
to begin with coaching is probably a very vulnerable thing in some respects not only lemme you actually sort of inviting somebody into your life but Dave you're gonna start sharing stuff that you've learned and it's probably gonna open you up to so how did you two find or approached the idea of coaching and being coached Dave do you want to start off oh yeah we were sort of um thrown together so I was there was a group of um a core group up at

[0:33]
Morissette meeting together when they connected with Geneva Geneva put them in touch with lamb and they said basically will take lamb if Geneva approve him and if Dave Toschi becomes his coach so it was sort of like I didn't have any choice I blame him himself but I know how it all kind of that sounds like a bit of a shotgun marriage we look uh what I'm gonna do is are gonna pursue the conversation with you cos leaves just dropped out again but hello him he can come back into the

[1:04]
conversation when he's ready was it hard for you to work out initially how you're going to relate I mean you've got to so you're gonna coach each other how did you come up with the structure and what did that involve yeah it was um it was a little tricky because as you say we were as I say we were thrown together so we're both country boys in but I was always a town boy he was a farm boy he grew up with a single mum and never been

[1:36]
our lambs never been at uni I studied at uni he studied SMBC I so did more College he was about to start a small little authentic church I was part of now weeks we planted 12 years ago so I think there was then needed to be trusting the relationship for us to have a good coaching relationship so I think early on we needed to hate lamb needed to learn to respect me and I needed to be confident that land was teachable but that didn't take long at all I think

[2:08]
probably the key thing for us was I'm a really helpful thing was we decided line out preaching program and that put us in really contact with each other on a weekly basis where we touch base see where each other was going with the sermons we're in the same part of the Word of God and I think that developed a lot of trust and from that has flowed you know they're a really good coaching relationship Dave that's really clever because not only you like coming up with

[2:39]
a relationship that's actually as you say gonna be touching base with each other weekly but you've found a foundation which is going to build you in Christ together you know and that's obviously you know another basis of of what we're hoping to get from coaching which is a mentoring you know procedure not simply on how to do life or even for that matter just how to do church planning but how to be an authentic Christian you know leader in that context so where have you seen the value for yourself because on one hand we're talking about how you've been you know

[3:11]
trying to work with Liam to help him take as you say is small authentic Church on have you seen it flow back towards you I've just one second Liam it's good to see you again yes that's okay mate in fact before I get to that second question we've just been chatting about with Dave about how you actually had to work hard to find a bassist – yeah to work together initially and how you hit upon the idea of paralleling your you're preaching programs and how that provided you know a very solid

[3:42]
basis for regular contact but also contact with them word and building each other up can you share from your perspective how you found the idea of being coached I mean did I'm just gonna preface this by saying and everybody is listening will understand church planners are a particular type of guy they tend to have to have a fairly resilient personality and they have to be well how can I put it alpha you know in some respect to go out and do what you need to do so how did you find the idea of being coached and how did you work with that yeah I had a pretty

[4:16]
pretty positive outlook towards it I can't go into an estate said we were thrown together we had no prior relationship but going into it I really I looking today there's sort of a pall to my Timothy I you know haven't done this before young and a days old as you can see although much more experienced with a wealth of experience you know very well he's planted a church in a similar part of the world and it made sense that there would be a whole lot of stuff that

[4:47]
Dave's been through and would know that I haven't been through and don't yet know and if I can avoid making mistakes well some mistakes through listening to advice and being coached well I'm all for that so so going into it I I guess that's that that's that's what I was looking for and yeah it's not really in terms of how it's felt in the coaching coach relationship it sort of felt to me

[5:17]
like Dave spent a bit of a safety net for me in terms of is hands off enough that I get to make my own genuine decisions and that be the the Alpha church planter entrepreneur sort of thing I'm not saying you go lamb is what you must do hands off you can make your own decisions that's why we assess you and went yeah but he's there with you sort of hands up to the sides making sure that I don't crash and burn because of one of my own stupid decisions so so if it gets really

[5:49]
silly is there to give me a little bit of guidance and yeah so don't do that but but it just it does feel like I am genuinely able to work through this and loan through small small mistakes but being protected from some larger mistakes and while directed in the right sort of direction can I just pick up on that because it actually must be quite a difficult thing I mean Dave as you say you've been going for years okay whereas Liam you're you're pretty much on your PAP alone you know you see your is it

[6:20]
helpful just the just being able to have the context of bounce ideas you know off someone do you do you find yourself doing that saying I'm looking at the next six months or I'm looking the next 18 months yeah it's invaluable I think as Dave said with the preaching and a lot approaching series I think I really underestimated how much I could learn just working alongside Dave in God's Word and I don't know that's I

[6:50]
like to encourage others to align preaching series because doing exegesis and prep working through it I just grossly underestimated how valuable is to sort of get in harness next to each other in the same part of God's Word and let that teach both of us but especially me as we're going forward together and so a lot of you just week to work sermons stuff there's there's a lot of stuff bouncing ideas off is really good but direction for church hey this is an idea I've got Dave what do you reckon it's just that

[7:22]
sort of banter is really good and and it's already really sharpened a lot of our direction for where we're going as a church where I'm spending my time personally how to add a learn to be a pastor with a wife and kids managing time managing family managing relationships all that sort of stuff it's really great to be able to say well what do you do have a look at this this is what I'm doing now where could I improve it it's been so valuable to have that it's like being part of a team before your church can employ 3-4 people

[7:54]
whatever so it's it's the the benefits of being in a team which we are where the Crothers we are on the same team I guess just expressing that in the church planting solo context yeah well Dave now it's also shifted the other way because we know it's a relationship it's not just you know some sort of distant mentoring so what do you think have you actually got as a coach from the process it's great to have someone to bounce the latest sermon I've got some really good sermon illustrations like play country boy

[8:27]
sermon illustrations because ask will ask later Liam whether or not you actually are a committed enough to only you'd but but Dave you are saying so the bouncing off sermon illustrations yes others day there's the benefits of just getting into the Word of God together but I have learnt a lot of about my own ministry through having to articulate it and talk about it with someone else and that challenges me to think about the decisions I've made why I've made them and because in a

[8:58]
sense you've got to not only justify to Liam what I've done in the past but also future direction so it's it's been a really helpful process at that level and one of the other really helpful things has been just my own coaching of my staff so Geneva is an awesome resource to me as a coach and so I've been doing that with Liam learning some coaching and I've also been doing it with my staff team I've actually been to the

[9:31]
Geneva coaching conferences as well so you sort of getting an input further back to so you can actually take that you get to leave and take that into rest yeah yeah I like the coaching conference it was just great hanging out with a bunch of guys who are just so like-minded so much to learn from and yeah I learned it really stimulating in terms of thinking about coaching and making the most of ya help helping lamb but also my own star team Liam do you

[10:02]
feel like you're learning the same thing because it go theoretically we didn't the Geneva push framework the idea is that three years from now you'll be a coach or you'll you'll be aiming to help other people now I know you're feeling daunted know that straightaway Scott Sanders will be saying whoa wait but no what I'm trying to say is without panicking you do you feel like you're picking up in the process the ability because you've got to Train leaders yourself do you feel like you're picking that up yeah absolutely even just in the last couple of months a couple of examples so don't come back

[10:33]
from the coaching conference Geneva coaching conference with some ideas saying hey of how about we do this and so Dave's arranged me to meet up with one of their other pastors Timlin is in charge of serving and said hey as you're structuring your church getting a bit bigger going to be more organized why don't you think about this aspect of church what are your what would you like that to look like and how you can achieve that and then putting me in touch with some people to bounce those little ideas off so that's sort of stuff

[11:03]
while I yeah I'm seeing the fruit of Dave's coaching training I'm also thinking yeah that that would be a great thing to be noting down at different points in the planning process you know saying oh well what would you like that to look like articulate to me what your aim is and now how are we going to how are we going to get to that at that point so absolutely I think it's it's great to me now but it makes sense then that that will be absorbed and come out in whatever I do in the future yeah well guys I'm gonna wrap up with

[11:34]
one last question and I think you've got two different perspectives to actually answer it on if somebody says to you look I'm interested in church planning I'm not sure about the coaching sort of thing or I feel like I'm you know I've got lots of benefits I can get from a network but I don't really need the coaching what would your you know initial responsibility to that idea how important would you say coaching is to them yeah well I guess I I get to say this because I am the yeah

[12:05]
maverick alpha church planter so please please hear me gently as gentle as an alpha Church mater can be if you don't think you need to choke a coach you may not be cut out to be a pastor it's hard enough to stay humble as the leader amongst God's people without the idea that you don't need to submit to anyone no matter for me personally no matter what I thought or felt about my

[12:36]
capabilities education my suitability for planting or pastoring if you know being able to submit to godly direction and instruction is a essential quality for any of God's people and I would say especially leaders especially lettuce like me who because of my entrepreneurial nature or whatever makes me suitable to be a church leader also makes me very vulnerable to being proud and solo so yeah if if you're getting

[13:11]
this feeling maybe I don't need a coach yeah probably better be praying really hard about just just yeah where you stand in terms humility and pride and why it is that you alone can go out there without any need for submission and direction yeah Dave what would you add to that um well I reckon church planning is a really strategic and important way for the gospel to go out through Australia and

[13:41]
we want to give it the best shot we can coaching is going to guarantee well it's gonna give it the best shot it can get for a church planter you only get one shot at it humanly speaking so if you have a go and file for one reason or another most guys can't get up and then have another crack just the impact of it not working is huge so it's just wise it's um it's the best yeah I reckon it's

[14:15]
just a really valuable thinking grab a coach learn as much as you can and just on the flip side of that or if you sort of about if this is going out to people who are thinking about coaching I reckon if you are someone who is godly got some ability to teach you'd plan to the church and centre church grow then you need a compelling reason why you wouldn't be a coach because I just take it as part of our responsibility to hand on the baton to the next generation it's

[14:48]
a bigger work than our own churches it's the gospel going to all the world so um yeah we need more coaches now I actually like that because you're not only saying be coached for your own sake we're saying big coach because that'll train you to be a coach yeah gentlemen thank you very much your time this morning thanks for perseverance to know the technical connection server I were all wiser and better connected for it but actually I know where a lot we're gonna benefit a lot from having this video on the site so have a great day and thank you very much and God bless you ministries say last