[0:00]
This session now is mostly an activity on looking at yourself and your attitudes and skills as a coach. And then after lunch, we look at change and a model of coaching called Grow. And we work on listening and questioning skills. We'll get you into threes and actually observe each other doing some coaching on some real issues.

[0:30]
So a lot of the time will actually be practicing things. You can read the notes in detail yourself or get someone to coach you through it, whatever, however you want to learn. All right. Just one other slide here before we go into this activity. That's the one I spoke about before in terms of where coaching fits in discipling, which is preaching the gospel and growing Christians, which we want to keep doing. In terms of one of the expectations, I think it was.

[1:00]
was Eugene had, where does the gospel fit into this coaching process? We're always disciplining. We're always calling upon people to, presumably as planters, they're not becoming Christians, but to be Christian, to be obedient, to work at the Christian life and submission to Christ in every area of life. Don't ever skip over that in terms of moving to the skills and the immediate issues of being the planter.

[1:30]
and not be talking about their Christian life. Okay? One of the things Chris and I worked on was prayer. So Chris talked about his prayer life, and we confessed our struggles with prayer life, and Chris came up some very practical things, which I didn't ask you the other day how they're going, in terms of morning prayers. Just basic Christian things to be working on, which… Ask you now. Yeah. We will. We will be here.

[2:00]
How to go this morning, mate? One of the rules was for Chris that he worked out himself is not to open the emails before he prays. Okay? Things like that. That's not going to. Praying about the emails. That's right. No one before email had a problem.

[2:30]
problem with prayer. Turning every email into prayer. I thought that's what the P, isn't that the P button on the, it was that print? I thought it was prayer. Command P. And we've talked about training, coaching, mentoring. I've tried to tease that out. Okay. Now, most of you did this next exercise before the conference.

[3:04]
Some of you didn't get to do it and sent it back through the survey forms to Scott, but we're going to discuss it together now. I've got a copy of most of them, which I've looked at, for those of you, sent it back. And the idea here is that coaching comes out of who you are. It's not just a set of things to do. So what are the attitudes and attributes and skills that you bring or don't bring? And this will actually just help us in in our pastoral ministry. It's not just helpful in coaching.

[3:35]
And as I looked at some of the themes here of what you've sent back, it was interesting that it's some pretty clear patterns. Problems with making assumptions about shared beliefs and values. Just assuming too much was a common theme in what you're saying to us is an issue, is an attitude or a, it's more an attitude there, isn't it, to work at?

[4:07]
Some uncertainty about how, you know, when to be tough and when to be supportive. Handling ambiguity. There's some ambiguity about that. Prejudices is coming in and defensive, you know, defensive kind of… I mean, when Chris was talking to me about prayer, do I then talk to him about my struggles in prayer? Well, it's dishonest not to, isn't it? You know, to pretend I've got all of Chris's regime worked out in my life, or do I get defensive and start hiding my struggles with prayer

[4:40]
because I'm supposed to be the coach, that's a problem, isn't it? Just in basic honesty and defensiveness. Avoiding judgmentalism, defensiveness. It comes up a lot. What do you get defensive about? I don't know what it is. you saying I'm defensive? Almost everyone talks about that. Some talked about feeling like you have to play the expert all the time

[5:11]
and giving advice all the time. Some are unaware of the emotional dependence that can happen in terms of making decisions. That can be… You've got to be aware that. there is an emotional dependence. I forget that with people sometimes. And you've got to be really aware when it's gone overboard. And people are paralyzed and they can't make decisions before they talk to their coach. Or their five coaches. There are some in our network. Some planters have three or four coaches for different things.

[5:42]
I think it's going overboard, really. But anyway, maybe it's helpful. Sounds like Roger Federer. Sorry? Oh, theological input, personal support. And one of the guys I'm coaching informally outside of the Geneva Network has four coaches. And I'm the godliness discipleship support person.

[6:12]
And he has a theological advisor. I'm not allowed to talk about theology. I joke with him about it. We joke about this. Another financial advisor. And I can't remember what the fourth one. And he lined me up to be the, he's a great guy, he's terrific, to be the discipleship kind of coach. But he's an interesting guy because he's actually very independent and gung ho. But he's gathered, part of him being gung ho is he's gathered four people around him to help him.

[6:45]
So I don't mind. But, but. But that's something to know how much? No, I was helping to help him. helping him as a coach to work on particular areas of godliness? Yeah. And he wanted me to. Yep. Setting goals and family life and personal life. Things like that. Yeah. So that were some of the themes coming through. So I want you to get into pairs now. And on page 40, you'll see this set of questions.

[7:17]
I made this up from reading some of the books on coaching attributes and skills. and then trying to Christianise it. And I haven't revised it. It kind of works, I think. There's a few double negatives in there. So you've got to think about whether you are strongly agreeing or disagreeing or what are you supposed to do? Put a… You put a one to five, yeah, whether you're doing a one or a five. You've got to work out… If you can do that around in the room that would help.

[7:51]
So some of you just need to do it quickly now in this time together. of you've already done it and sent it in. And I think probably the best goal to have in the next… 20 minutes together, some of that? 20 minutes? Is to pick three specific things to work on in terms of your attributes and skills. Not just, I need to be more authentic, but which aspect of being more authentic? Or which aspect of being flexible? Okay?

[8:21]
The defensiveness one or… not taking criticism or pre-judging their attitudes before I actually listen to them. So which one are… In the detailed statements under the broader areas, pick three that you need to work on. Okay? So get with someone in the room, read through them together, and try and work out three areas to work on in terms of your attitude.

[8:52]
in terms of your attitudes, attribute, skills. Does that make sense? Yeah, ideally. It may not pair up exactly like that around the room, but, yeah. So it's what… How would you rate yourself on this? And then the other person, how would they rate you? So it's only going to work if you know them reasonably well. All right? Does that make sense?

[9:22]
If you've already sent it in, then just do the one to five again. Okay, just… Okay, let's get some feedback. This is the touchy-feely bit, which some of you really enjoy, don't you? Just thinking about what you're defensive about and ambiguous about. You just love this stuff. You just came to this two days to dig deep inside your soul and find out how you really feel about everything. This is just the highlight of your life.

[9:55]
Okay? So I'm just acknowledging this doesn't work for all of you, but actually very important because it's about who we are, isn't it? Now, I still need to be liked. I just point that out to you if you want to keep liking me. Thank you. Keep it coming. Keep it coming. So that affects me, and I think it affects me in terms of not being tough when I need to be tough. As I look through these things here, I probably shared these two years ago.

[10:26]
I probably haven't worked on them. I need a coach to help me with this, you see. So I don't give clear feedback without qualifiers. That's a helpful thing to learn not to do that, or to learn to do it, I mean, to give clear, sharp feedback without qualifiers. I give qualifiers because I'm not sure, you know, if I'm really tough about it, what they're going to think about it. And am I really authentic myself? in being sharp about it. So these things, they don't paralyze me, okay?

[10:58]
And I don't lose sleep over it, but these things run through my head as I talk to you or as I coach or as I preach or, and they're worth me working on. And so I don't say the hard things sometimes when I need to say the hard things. I'm a supporter and that kind of personality and pastor. And some of it just needs to be a bit more honest and I need to get over my own. self a bit. Follow that. See how these sort of, just some basic awareness can actually help in all of our relationships,

[11:33]
including the coaching one. And, all right, what's some feedback you notice there along those sorts of lines, whatever kind of lines that would help you as a pastor and coach? I'm more self-aware and I said that I am. Mm-hmm. It's just proven my point.

[12:08]
Yes. We've just followed that. Yeah. There is logic in there. Good. So did that leave you kind of comforted in your self-awareness? Yes, you're there. You're, you're there. Yeah. I don't know. Yes, it's very hard to have an anchor and picture of the story. And that's just that important anyway. So that's the… That's right. I don't know why shallow is an idiot character.

[12:39]
Things get too good to deep, people around. Yeah, yeah. Yes, we love these subjects, aren't we? I mean, on that one, the second one, self-full-law, is in the middle of a conversation or a meeting, I can monitor my own feelings and behaviour patterns, such as aggression, shyness. It's not bad to be able to do that, is it? In different leadership contexts, to know when I'm getting flustered and why, or when I'm getting angry or why, or…

[13:13]
And then what to do about it. So, although it is this touchy-feely stuff, it's actually… just take it as an example of self-awareness. That's not a bad one to know as to what's then affecting what I say to the person and my attitude to the person or to the meeting or whatever it is, because I'm actually dealing with myself in terms of what's provoking me or making me feel inadequate.

[13:44]
Yeah. So I found that one quite helpful. Other reflections on this? from any of you? What do you think that means? I think that means? Mm-hmm. So I don't think I'm not having that either of that people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm.

[14:15]
Mm. Mm. Yeah. I think the other way that is meant there too is that to be aware of, this is where face-to-face coaching is much better than Skype and like that kind of stuff. To be aware of the body language and just the mood of the planter or the leader in our church. And to take that as a positive thing rather than a distraction. So we've got this coaching session. It's like leading small groups and all kinds of things.

[14:47]
And we've got our plan. We're going to have a coaching session. We're going to work on this topic. But you… You notice immediately what the mood is, whether it's down or up. And that may be a clue is to somewhere you need to go, at least at some point, in a whole coaching topic. So it's tapping into those kinds of where people are at emotionally and seeing that as a positive thing in our relationships, in our helping of them rather than avoidance. Yeah.

[15:18]
I have to be under the understanding people. explain the expert giving too much advice, which I think it's also related to the self-awareness to get into message. So I think, I think, good things work out something and therefore theoretically expert and when someone applied it, get to get intense about why they're quite expert. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think I was saying I think I've become a worst model play later later that was in music.

[15:51]
go because I know my…

[16:21]
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is why coaching is hard for some of us, because it just takes time and patience, and you're teasing people out, and you're just used to delivering the message. Yeah. Which is the expression of control. It's one of the problems of preaching is very controlled. Yeah. Which only does impact touching the coaching experience. Yeah.

[16:51]
Yeah. even can shape that process by our experience and what's worked for us.

[17:25]
And it's hard to be open to a totally different way. So you'll see that after lunch when Chris and I do this hopefully real-life session. It's today, not tomorrow. Sorry, brother, I got the program wrong. My temptation will be to take Chris on this issue down the paths I've been in the past, and it's a controlling, partly defensive kind of thing. That's what I know. That's what I think is right. Rather than getting him to work. out what's right in his situation. So we can control it even in setting the goals, that we influence the goals.

[17:58]
It's got to be the way we do it. Now, if it's justification by faith, then you want to teach that, you know. That's absolute. But the style of church plant may not be absolute. Yep. What other things? What about the cross-cultural thing, guys? Eugene and Peter, is this? face culture is a big thing. I find myself having it. I don't consider myself very Chinese, but then I actually hear it.

[18:32]
You said face culture? Yeah. But both of us is we get defensive in our heads. We just don't say anything. And so I rated it low, but he rated it in a lot because he thought, well, I'm not. Yes. Yeah, yeah. But actually that's quite a common thing is people don't actually know what you think.

[19:07]
And what's interesting is though you and I have had some interactions. We actually knew very little about each other on a lot of these things. But actually, so there are few things I said that surprise you, even though we've sat up in a media. Yes, yeah. And I think a lot of that is because of that face. This is a good way where you don't wear you quickly. Yeah, yeah. I think that's very much part of the problem. Philip and I noticed that once, we were helping to plant a Korean church years ago with some friends that some of you know. And we're having meetings with these two godly guys, one pastor and elder.

[19:41]
And they're in our ministry. We knew them quite well, and we're discussing the church plant. And we come away from each meeting, Philip and I are saying, well, we talked a lot. And we think some decisions were made, but we've got no idea. At that time, I happened to hear a radio interview about Japanese culture, that when the Japanese make a decision, they play bowls, and when we make decisions, we play tennis. So the Oriental culture is to roll up an idea and just watch it come up to the next ball,

[20:13]
and then you roll up another idea, and you roll up another idea, and you roll it. But we bat ideas back and forward across the net. So Philip and I were expecting the idea is to be battered back, but nothing was ever said. Even though they were friends and not particularly defending, just a total cultural difference. So we went back to these two Korean mates and said, is this what's happening? You're playing balls and we're playing tennis. And they said, that's exactly what's happening. So there's a huge cultural difference, isn't it, just in terms of sitting in meetings. I just like to tell you a story. Just to…

[20:44]
Well, I think by acknowledging it and laughing about it, And they're Aussie enough to kind of enable us to do it. We then just made the decision somehow. Philip and I couldn't work out whether the decisions have been made. So how do you avoid, if you are an expert and you like finding an expert, you don't say, you know, you pull away from actually giving the expert advice.

[21:18]
The planter goes away, though. down a track, you can clearly see they're going to make mistakes. You know, you can help to let them make mistakes. Yeah, that's a good question. And then you're not going to be judgmental and say, you know, I knew that was going to happen. Yeah. But actually help them, help them unravel the mistakes, or help them, you know, learn from mistakes, and then not make them again. So how do you handle that? I'll throw it back to you. So in terms of… When do you give advice? When do you not… We're playing tennis.

[21:48]
Yeah. No, do you. doing balls of them, I'm not like. I'm assuming all you're playing with Andrew, you know, they're taking your voice and they're, you know, they're all successful. They're not. They're going to get a voice. Yeah. ! I think the co-dependence, I keep in code dependency, that way. Mm-hmm. And so we wake up on that, it was, it's actually that, how you are, you are. Mm.

[22:20]
and it's struck me that I'd like to micro-manage the least of success. Yeah. And it's back with that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

[22:50]
But they're not taking it and you insist on it. How much do you control at that point? Yeah. Nike? I'll just, is it partly, and I'm not suggesting to get to try, but is it part the, without giving the advice rather to work with the first one packet, our different choices will unfold. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, you know, what do you think will happen if you go that way? Yes.

[23:20]
Yeah. Yeah. And perhaps if someone directly you could see, I would have for this might have. Mm-hmm. Yep. You can't unpack the other one. Yeah, and I… Yeah, I did that yesterday. I think I did that with a guy yesterday at church who wants to be a missionary in another land and he's falling in love with a woman, and we're talking about whether she is suitable to go into that whole mission situation with him. And it's…

[23:50]
It's tempting because of the situation just to say, no, don't go there. But I said, find out some specific things as to why she is like that and how she might react to certain situations. And here are two people, several people to talk to, to help you together to find that out. So maybe that's an example of it, of unpacking, rather than me just giving the advice, my gut-feeling kind of advice, which others are actually given him to as well.

[24:20]
world. Don't go there. Don't marry the woman. He's not persuaded of that advice yet. But unpack what the issues are in her life and where they've come from and how that's affecting her and do that with this other married couple who could help you do it. I don't know. Maybe that's an example of making the advice more effective by them unpacking it.