[0:00]
I really enjoyed just chatting to a few of you through lunch and before lunch. Just again on that sense of it's great to have time to talk about things that we just don't get to. We had one couple come up and go, we're going to go get a friend of the marriage, good thing. Another couple come up and go, we're used to, now we don't. Let's get back to spending some time in the word together, so that's really good.

[0:30]
I said something about the very nice people in his life and how they're just so nice to be with and I think it was you Dan who said they're just like chips. Not necessarily the best meal for you but you just crave them and you like them. It's good to have them. So yeah, very nice people are good to have around as well. So we hope you've learnt something for your marriages in there. But I love the fact that you guys spend time talking to each other. That's why we run these a little bit different to just talking at you. We want you to learn from each other.

[1:00]
And so we're going to do some more of that, so I hope you're sitting with your groups again. This was a topic that was brought up last year by the tuckers, I think, very helpfully by the tuckers, but there was no real time to talk about it amongst yourselves. And I thought it was so important that I thought we just have to refresh out memories and get some time to talk to each other. This was on the models of ministry that they presented to us. So just as a summary. So I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the other. I just don't know the

[1:30]
go through. As you're setting up church, what sort of model of ministry will you have? And will it change over time? Will it start as one and move to another? This again is all keeping things current for you. So the traditional model of ministry that they talked about and I'll remind you of is a full-time husband and a at-home wife. Traditional as in the sense of this what church looked like a long time ago. I don't see too many of these around at the moment but I guess they're there where the husband is working full-time

[2:02]
as the minister and the wife is at home full-time with children, maybe involved in a bit of hospitality, a bit of cups of tea in the afternoon or something but not upfront in ministry in any way and certainly not involved in any decision-making. Traditional stay-at-home supporting wife. Second one, the two-for-one model. I see a lot more of this around at the moment especially in church planning circles or further around down the track but a two-for-one model

[2:32]
really is where one of you is being paid, usually the husband in our circles and but you're actually getting double, double-fier money because the wife is so totally involved full-time side by side with the husband. So she knows lots of what's happening at church. She's upfront in ministry perhaps running women's groups, children's ministries. She knows a lot about the church structure. She has input into decision-making. She's not a paid employer

[3:04]
but you find she's working long hours. Okay so she really is putting all this in for no monetary effort but as a full-time alongside her husband, two-for-one model. Next one, it's an independent model. This is where the full-time husband working but the wife is maybe a high-functioning volunteer and serving where she feels gifted. So she might have one role, maybe women's ministry or children's ministry or something else but she's not involved in the

[3:40]
decisions like any other person. She's got a large life outside of church so church isn't her full-time thing. She's just what we'd call a high-functioning volunteer in an area or two. So an independent model. This is the one some of you will understand very well the economic survival model where the husband is part-time in church in the sense of being paid part-time but is actually working full-time or more but in order to survive the wife has to be out working to support the family. This is often

[4:16]
how church planting plants happen and it could be helpful in the short term but I think over the long term it's not sustainable and can build a lot of resentment in the sense of I have to keep working, keep working for you to be working more and more and more hours and yet not being paid enough money for us to live on. So the wife may be emotionally committed to the church plant but distant from any involvement because she's just too busy working as well as maybe raising the

[4:46]
family and then the other one that was mentioned was the two career model where the husband is full-time in the church and the wife is a career wife and so she's not involved in church at all not necessarily working because she has to but because she wants to, enjoys her work, is happy for the extra income but she's not really involved in decision-making or high-functioning volunteer so it could be emotionally supportive and as any wife might be but so you know we could have been a two career

[5:22]
model in the sense of when Scott had his business I'm certainly supportive happy to be there but I'm not involved in the decision-making and I have my own life, my own career. I think having talked to Tim and Emma I should add another comment because I don't think I have it met too many where it's full-time ministry wife and full-time working so Emma might need a round of applause for that at the moment. She's doing full-time as a head mystery or deputy head and involved in the young church

[5:56]
plants so that's huge and there may be others of you that I don't know who actually is. That's clearly sustainable. Yeah not sustainable forever and maybe only sustainable while there's no children but certainly it shows that we're all working at different in different models of ministry and this again is a way of just getting you to chat about what is what are you involved in at the moment and what are you looking at? So we're going to do group talk first where you're in your groups again and what's the model of ministry you're working with now so just between the groups say hey we're

[6:29]
a two for one or we're an economic survival or we're not even on the pages is what's happening for us. How is it beneficial? What are the challenges and what can you learn from each other? So please give each other time don't anyone hog it but just talk about this is what we've started church like or this is where we are now so don't go into history so much but what's working for you now in your models of ministry so breaking their little grips and away you go.

[7:02]
Again we hope you see that in a long marriage those models are going to change they're not going to stay the same the way your marriage isn't staying the same and different models will have a different impact on how you partner together and whether you feel together even though you know you may be even going through that drift or talking about but because of the way you're doing ministry you need to have your head spaced together even if you're not working together so hopefully you will see your ministry whatever role you're in as being a we whatever stage you're going through

[7:39]
but great conversations to have with each other maybe good time to have a conversation just with your husband and wife now so a couple talk for five which is on the next page in your manual it's just saying which is the model of ministry you're working with no that was a group talk next one in what ways has our model of ministry changed since we started now because if you haven't even started like we just said someone's starting in a couple of weeks obviously you

[8:09]
can't answer that one so move on but some of you've been at it for a while has your model of ministry changed talk about that journey you've been on and in what ways can you see it changing or evolving in the short or long term future so there may be some dreams and wishes you have to how you want it to be at the moment we're in economic survival but I'm hoping by 2018 we can be in this sort of model how can we work towards that so we'll give you a few minutes to talk couple talk for together but we find that it is it is really important to not just let life

[8:42]
just happen but to think about what's next life stage and we find often in the marriage talks that we do with people they find that understanding life stages and and hey life actually changes and we need to think about what the next change is and prepare for it make changes in our own behavior and in our marriage so this is one of those times for you to sort of sit down and go so as we've been through Bible college what model do we have as we're now launching our church or as we've launched what's changed and what do we think is the next thing that's likely to happen

[9:13]
so we can start to prepare for it okay go all right I'll call you back to the front now lots of great conversations happening and I hope you can keep them going at various times through these couple of days we're still in partners we're still looking at partners we're looking at our ministry now we're going to look at our homes our homes in ministry big difference as you know to having a very busy life to having a very busy

[9:48]
ministry life I mean I think that that graph that Scott and I showed you of how busy life was for us with four kids and him running his business at the same time the only hospitality I had to do for sterling computing was running on your Christmas party I didn't have to visit the employees in hospital I didn't have to cook meals for the new mums I didn't feel any of that pressure there was a big line between work and home but for you guys of course you know that line doesn't really exist or exists that's very blurry some of you your church office is in your home your growth

[10:25]
groups in your home your elders meetings are in your home you know I never had the finance meeting for sterling in my home but I know that some of you have even those tenths sort of meetings in your home as well so there is a big understanding needed to have between a marriage of what's our capacity and our energy for hospitality I'm married to a man who would have people over for dinner every night every night I have a man as I think I told some of you that you know we'll sit on a plane and invite that person back home to stay I have a man who has recently asked a young girl

[11:03]
to come and live with us for nine months so I have a very hospitable husband and I admit to him and I've admitted to you in previous times Kim loves it really I need to do it because she enjoys it I get drained by a lot of it and yet I'm not trying to run a church as well so it is a thing I think you can learn from each other so we're going to get you to talk in groups again as to what is the

[11:33]
level of activity in your home for ministry and simple hospitality I think sometimes there's a lot of ministry happening but I feel like my friends can never drop in because there's a meeting every night or I can't have my mother come and stay because there's no room or whatever so there is a sense that there's ministry and simple hospitality what can you learn from each other so I'd love you to be able to share openly with each other in your groups you know if you're struggling with that say so if you're saying this is work for us putting a limit on how many meetings this is what work for us

[12:06]
putting the office out in the caravan whatever has worked for you so that you as a couple can manage ministry and hospitality in your in your group so you don't have a group talk on that and then of course a couple talk after that so we'll call you back from your group talk when it's time back to your groups yeah I'm going to get you to come back into your couples and again we'll be asking the question is

[12:36]
is hospitality and the way you use your home something that's pulling your part or bringing you together and a conversation you'll need over and over again so in your couples now another conversation you may have not have had for a while I having any struggles or differences the way you're using your home at the moment for ministry and hospitality you might need to hear a few hard truths there you might need to hear it's too much or it's too little this is what I would like so be kind to each other there but maybe there's some dreams you have for the future regarding

[13:11]
the use of space in your present or future home I mean this is a big one isn't it I want a new home I want a bigger space whatever it is it's a dream be kind just let each other dream about what is it that you would like for the future the knit knit short term future or for the long term future do I want to upgrade downsize all that sort of stuff so have a bit of conversation about how it's going for you now and dreams for the future we'll give you a little time as a couple to talk about that all right we might call it that's it for partners so if you could wiggle around

[13:53]
face me again I know we're in mid afternoon and the energy slump so that's why we leave the very exciting one next so before we do move on to the final leg of the stool which is lovers just this afternoon at four o'clock so there's not much time between now and then I can realise that there is a panel here with Andrew and Kathy and Scott and I just sitting up here telling you a few things we did wrong and a few things we did right being partners together as

[14:24]
parents now obviously there'll be questions that you might have there's a page in your book right now that you can jot questions down ready to call out or if you prefer to be anonymous you could just leave a few questions out the front here if you like and we can just go from there but that's it for a clock so we've got another section to get through before then and this is the lovers friends partners and lovers three important legs of the stool that makes up a strong

[14:56]
what is it a strong we and a firm stool that's right okay let's move on topic topic at the number one of this and you've got this in your books as well is just what was God thinking when he put men and women together I don't mean that in an irreverent way but I just mean there are so many differences between the way men and women experience sexual intimacy what was God thinking well I think he was thinking how about I make a couple have to sacrifice and

[15:32]
learn about each other and be gentle and loving to each other and this is why we go through so many struggles within sexual intimacy in a marriage just because we are very very different so here's the chart on the side of men you want to read out the actually I might do it the other way around Scotty I want to talk about men and you can talk about women how about that this is totally such an expert on women men what do I have to learn about being married to a man and sexual intimacy with

[16:03]
a man I've had to learn that sex leads to feelings of love for a man sex is something that makes them feel good about you or about me it really is sex and then love in some cases I'm married to a bit of a gender flip on that one but I've had to learn yeah sex makes leads to feelings of love and for women for women feelings of love lead to sex so it's quite often that like as Kim

[16:37]
said for a man if he's feeling even like depressed or like there's even stories of where a guy has gone to a funeral freeze father and then wanted to have sex as like comfort afterwards which to a woman like oh I don't understand that at all so women tend to feel that they need to be loved to let it feel cherished in order to be intimate so if you've ignored her all day and then you come home here baby she's probably not going to be that interested because you have

[17:10]
an engaged you haven't had that conversation and that linkage with her next the quick men are quickly aroused and can be quickly satisfied especially young men so that's just a physical thing I mean the man has 20 times the testosterone that a woman has so that's why he's quickly aroused and often quickly satisfied and has to learn how to be patient and learn how to prolong his love

[17:42]
because as a young man in his 18s to 26s or whatever it is can be just very very quick too quick and so that's what I've had to learn about young men that's a long time ago but there you are there's differences now what are you saying like I say a lot more we might just stop there and what I've had to learn about women is slowly aroused which means that you know if you're a guy and you're a quickly aroused and you're thinking hey she's probably on the same page

[18:16]
hey she probably isn't and you need to spend a bit of time having like just loving her and and turning attention to her rather than just trying to be physically satisfied yourself and that in turn helps her to feel more connected to you and it's and it's a good thing when it works but we're talking about physical aroused all here so not necessarily emotional so the difference between oh gosh what are my two words physical desire desire and arousal okay so desire being

[18:49]
what's playing on in your mind that I desire sex but arousal being the actual physical arousal mechanism that's happening in you so for a woman lubrication and nepolaration and all those sorts of things other physical arousal and a woman is slowly aroused in that way whereas a man can be quickly aroused physically okay so when I'm talking about desire he we're talking about physical aroused yeah for man I have to learn that the best part of release of tension is the goal is the release of tension the goal the climax so for a man sex is especially a young man that's the goal

[19:26]
that's the exciting part and that's what's interesting to him and so what was God thinking because for a woman well for a woman it's actually that journey as it talks about so it's the love making process it's the feeling of intimacy it's it's all that caring and what I had to learn as well for a guy who sort of feels that if you're not ejaculating then it's not really sex that for a woman to not actually have a climax doesn't necessarily mean she hasn't enjoyed it because

[19:57]
it's the journey it's the intimacy it's the it's the connection that you have that can actually do it and the build up of tension being that the longer the floor played the better sometimes it's not necessarily let's just get this over and done with quickly which leads us to for a man prefers direct stimulation I mean of sex glands it's quite happy go straight there I'll be happy with that but for a woman yeah not so much so so if you know the hand starts creeping across

[20:29]
the bed and starts groping that's the word that's used isn't it it's not how he's tenderly feeling me know he's groping right so so guys it's it's sort of you you got to pace yourself delay the direct stimulation use the other parts the neck the arms legs or like that they want the whole message the whole tickle the whole you know five hours later type stuff but if you can be patient it's worth the way I've had to learn that men like sex in order to relax it does make

[21:07]
a it is there's a there's a there's a hormone called prolactin that is released by a man when he has sex what does it do what that it does that what I saw Tim do it uh it makes him sleepy yeah yeah what did you do at lunchtime what do you mean up to so who said everything's not possible when you're planning a church so yes so for a for a guy it actually is a is a special hormone

[21:42]
that's prolactin that makes you sleepy now interestingly pornography has shown up that that pornography and coming to a climax through pornography doesn't give off prolactin it's just one of those things that God gives for male female sexual completion and and that's why he snores in your ear right so when you've just you know had a nice time together and he just wants to go straight

[22:12]
to sleep you don't have to sort of think oh what is such a down you can say praise God he's given that beautiful prolactin to my husband so that he can rest and be comfortable following the whole process and and just ignore the snores because it's it's a romantic purring that's what it is it's there's a positive spin to everything swapped over here because I was going to say well women like to relax in order to have sex in other words we need a bit of a downtime before we think

[22:43]
about sex again we can't jump straight from the dishes or the nap is straight into bed we need some time to relax so um so give us some time off give it that little neck message tell it a gun have a bath or a shower just relax and you take the kids and and let them sort of pull your brand apart yeah you got that um men are aroused visually in other words there's a lot of men that just want the lights on and and they may even want a mirror who knows so they like to see and a lot of us girls

[23:14]
don't like that necessarily and it's embarrassment about our own bodies all the rest of it but we've got to understand God has made men differently and they like to see and the problem is with this whole culture of how women are directed towards like they're their looks are really important and how how they feel about themselves you're like most women when they look at a photograph of themselves go oh don't I look terrible um it's it's that whole body image stuff is really significant for a woman and so you may feel that like he wouldn't want to see me naked but he probably does

[23:50]
but guys um you being naked may not turn her on that's true but and it may not just do it for you and say she she might be more into the romance now now now romance can take many forms and each of you can have your own little organization about what romance works for some it can be you know a nice candle at dinner for some actually if you're in the particularly the time when you've got lots of little kids it can be a time where there's just no kids for a moment like you've put them down and it might be worth saying look I don't

[24:23]
mean put them down but you but you've but you put them to bed right and so they've gone to bed they're all out like lights hopefully and it's not too late and you're not too exhausted that maybe then you could sit and have a nice dinner together after that instead of trying to participate in the food fight with the kids and then jump in the sack and expect skyrockets it's probably not going to happen but if you can put the kids to bed have a time where you chill now let's have a nice relaxing little dinner and let's actually talk that can be romance

[24:55]
because it doesn't happen very often and it's very special when it does and that's where you need to talk to each other about what's romance to you etc. I think the next one is the real what was blood thinking thing for me is why is a sexual prime for a man in his late teens in early 20s when our society doesn't even have you getting married till after that but anyway that's that's the facts of it and a sexual prime for women can be as late as their 30s or even early 40s there's a big gap there isn't there how we understand as young wives how sexually excited our

[25:33]
young husbands are and then at the other end of the spectrum in the 40s and 50s the men have got to work out hey the woman's come alive perfect timing and so that's that's when you've got to be able to cope with that and and as we've we do our marriage courses with different age groups it is something that a lot of the older couples actually struggle with because it changes roles because often in the young the young marriage you've got the guy who is pursuing he's initiating

[26:06]
and he has the higher desire levels where the girls don't and then later on the girls may have the higher desire levels and the guys go what's happening you know and so and the guys are going I'm not that excited and so there's a whole role reversal that can happen and so just be aware that when those things happen to you it's natural it's normal it's just the way God planned it and I'll learn again desire by consistent hormones so again that testosterone is pumping around 24 seven it doesn't have a cycle so a man can have high desire all his life and for a woman and that

[26:42]
doesn't mean that we're just warped you know like if you sort of think that your husband is always weighing sex all the time it's not that he's a sexual deviant it's just that that's what's happening to him physiologically it's going on all the time whereas for your girls your estrogen levels as you know vary throughout the months and they have different peaks and you will notice that there'll be different times where you feel more desirous than others and so there's things that happen in your own hormones that are that are cyclical that you've got to sort of work out if you're

[27:16]
at the peak of your cycle when you feel most like sex and you thought multiply that by about 10 or 20 and that's how he feels all the time and let each other know like know what the cycle is and sort of just be honest about that like this time of the month I'm never going to be interested but here I am and just be able to talk that through for men of course a single orgasm one shot and you're over what was God thinking well it's getting personal now but but usually usually for a guy

[27:51]
having multiple orgasms it has to have a gap in the middle sometime sometimes it can be half an hour sometimes it can be half a week it just depends upon what your cycle is and your recovery in your age and all that sort of stuff but this is where it pays off for the girls because girls it is quite feasible to be able to have multiple orgasms in the same session and different types of orgasms both being internal and external orgasms and so there's a whole different palette that you've got to play with there that your artistic palette of how you can paint that and it's worthwhile

[28:27]
understanding your own body and your own cycles and your own way that you can enjoy sex for you to actually get together on that. So we do have a lot of differences I mean with so different as male and female normally I was reading this little thing that said for a woman how do you treat a woman you wine her you dine her you hold her you surprise her you compliment her you listen to her you laugh with her you cry with her you romance her you encourage her you cuddle her you shop with her

[29:00]
you write love letters to her and how to treat a man you turn up naked and don't get in front of the TV. Play. There are a lot more simple aren't they? Okay you are going to have time to talk about sex with each other and I know this might be something you can't wait and it might be something like do we really have to but your couple talk seven has that chart there and it asks in what way does this chart reflect us and do we have any gender flips and how does it um differences impact our love life

[29:37]
and there may be gender flips on that there's gender flips on that for us for sure especially as we've got older um and that might be that you just go that's just nothing like us we're totally opposite to that it doesn't matter all it matters is that you're able to recognize the differences and talk about it so you might want to just move a little bit further away than you did on the other couple talks take a little side of the room and we'll call you back but we're just lucky to do couple talks seven together now and we'll call you back in a while. It's a lot quieter during that couple

[30:15]
talk but um could you please face the front now and we'll um we'll move on. In your manuals on the next page page 17 um I do have a page called um what God says no to as far as sexual um intimacy goes um I don't want to go through all that I think you know it but there's a section of what God says no to within the Bible and a few of those verses because what I find

[30:49]
is that a lot of couples get um mixed up on what is what's wrong and what just makes me feel uncomfortable and sometimes over a long marriage you've got to realize the difference between that's wrong in immoral and against God's plan and design as opposed to uh just not sure I like that

[31:20]
or I'm not sure I can go there and sometimes couples will make the mistake in the younger marriages of saying that's wrong and I'm never going there as opposed to can you give me some time and can we work on that slowly okay so if one of you wants to be more adventurous than the other I think the questions to ask are up there and in your book firstly has God said no to this

[31:51]
is it one of those in that list of fornication adultery homosexuality the rest of it and if it's a not a no answer could I then consider my freedom to pursue that sexually with you my husband my wife by asking the next question is it good for us in other words what you're asking me to try or do or what we're intending to try to do together does it harm our relationship does it cause emotional or physical pain for either of us and will it cause me to feel unsafe with you

[32:26]
because if the answer to that is yes it will harm us it wouldn't matter if God said yes to it a hundred times it's not going to be good for you but if you can honestly in your heart go you know it's not really going to harm us it's just that I'm going to need time and coaxing and give it a go and see how I feel because it's not illegal it's not immoral it's just that I feel uncomfortable so can you answer that is it going to be good for us and then the last one is it only for us in

[32:58]
other words what you're asking me to do or try or whatever has it involved anyone or anything else that is going to break that we between us so I think it's not acceptable ever to involve someone else obviously but I think we need to include pornography in that you know I believe to to ask husband or wife to use pornography to view it to use it in order to wait again sexual intimacy it doesn't work it doesn't work it divides a couple it does not bring a couple together

[33:36]
but some of the other things that you might find that are just you know you want to try including oral sex or role plays and dress up some things you ask those questions is it wrong does God say no is it good for us will it will it help us grow together and is it only for us and if you can answer all those really the rule books gone God doesn't have any rules against enjoying each other's bodies in fact he says you give your body to your husband he gives his body to you and so this is

[34:07]
conversations that just have to continue on through all of marriage what we don't want to happen in marriage is that what you started out in you one is what you're still doing in you 37 and it's boring because you haven't bothered to invest in that side of your life again and so we're going to have one more talk on what's missing from married sex these are the things that I hear that are missing from married sex it's interesting that our TV and movies out of all the TV and

[34:43]
movies sex things 7% are between married couples the rest is between unmarried couples and it involves a lot of risk variety kissing all sorts of things like that so we don't want to be like the movies but we do want to be inventive and fun with each other so we're going to listen to our last Mark Gungal clip because this is our third refresh our final one of the three part series and we've listened to him before we talk about sex but he's going to be talking now about variety in sex

[35:18]
and I'll be talking about some of those other things as well so I have a listen to Mark Gungal on a variety in sex it's for you men mostly sorry he writes your stature is like that of the palm tree and your breasts are like clusters of fruit I said to myself I will climb the palm tree now take hold of fruit

[35:59]
haha how you gonna go now the problem here is most guys don't want to take the time to climb the palm tree there's one to hop in a cherry picker and swing in and grab the coconut heavy come on you want to have sex you wake come on stop that you've got to learn how to

[36:38]
climb at the palm tree you got to learn how to touch the girl how to romance of the girl and you need to be romantic you got to mix it up you got to be so puking predictable a lot of you guys the minute you touch her she knows what's coming why does she act like that because you're so obvious you're so predictable women are not interested in a formula men are by nature formulaic you do this you get that you get that you get that you get that you get that all right and

[37:13]
she's nice you know you do that every time with her she just get away from me you need to mix it up gotta learn how to climb at a palm tree you know you don't know you know you really want great foreplay turn it into a 24 hour deal I call it slow roasting your woman man it rocks don't mean such a hurry you know kiss the girl leave her alone flirt with the girl

[37:49]
leave her alone touch the girl leave her alone keep her guessing much what's going on what is this you know you know my wife will come out of the shower say baby just lay down I'll give her a back room she'll fall asleep now cover up now she's calling the bed next to her turn off light and go to sleep so couldn't do that past right go blind where he's talking mainly the guys so I talked to girls too mix it up don't be so predictable

[38:23]
do something different and what I hear from a lot of wives is guess what's missing from marriage sex I don't get kissed anymore I've heard that so often I get a peck but I don't get kissed in the same way and I think that sad I think that kissing is something that is quite intimate you know that prostitutes will often have a a rule that they won't kiss they'll do everything else but they won't kiss each other kiss the client because it's very

[38:57]
intimate and I know that in our courtships we do a lot of kissing or we some of us don't there's a first kiss at the altar thing going around that I find quite weird but anyway that's going around but we tend to stop kissing as married couples simply because we think that leads to sex and we're not having it today or it's too busy or the kids are around or whatever so we just stop kissing all together so I think that that's something we need to go how we have we stopped actually kissing

[39:29]
properly and enjoying each other that doesn't lead to sex because that is slow roasting your woman there'll be very few women here sitting who wouldn't like a very nice kiss every now and then that doesn't lead to sex but will certainly create those feelings of desire in them of course what's missing from married sex is privacy when there's children around that's a big one how do we even think about having love making when there's little ankle-biders

[40:02]
and that's something that really has to be worked on with locks we've even talking to children who need to be told if the door's closed you don't come in that's that's our time that's not a bad time to do it once yeah and I'm sure you've had it done to you else was worse when the cleaner in a hotel came in that was pretty awful but again that leads on to another thing variety and risk and faithfulness I mean that is the

[40:39]
the number one thing that people who are having affairs enjoy unfortunately is that sense of risk and tension and all the rest of it that's missing from married sex too because you know that you're available to each other how do you get that variety and that sense of playfulness back again that's something to work out but variety just in as I put in brackets the speedboat the cruise or the zodiac sex now speedboat being just the sex that other people might have the name

[41:14]
as a quickie or bread and butter like in the sense that's that's our normal very easy works for us garden variety sexual experience and it's not very long works most of the time and it's good it's good for you to have speedboat sex I know when we first married we're lots of speedboat sex before church didn't we morning service you're going there aren't you we there was one door

[41:45]
where it's going no we haven't got enough time we'll be late and we're only just married and they'll know we've been doing it if we walk in late they'll know why we're walking in late and and so anyway we were late and and as we're walking in church we sort of snuck in the back and we sort of sat down with nobody saw and then we thought I wonder if there's anybody else later than us what he sort of kept an eye on the door and then there's really old couple walked in and we were like oh no it's just terrible but speedboat sex it's good yeah okay so but but then speedboat sex or

[42:22]
just bread and butter sex well I can you know satisfy and be fine you know nine nine times out of a 10 or one it's it's good to not just make it the staple diet the whole time it's good to have some special time where you have what what we call like a cruise where you take a lot longer you make it a special night you might have like the dinner you put the kids to bed or whatever you do get rid of the kids but you do whatever you can do just to make it so it's nice and you make

[42:52]
it a nice night affair where you just take a lot of time over it and just enjoy each other the trouble is that cruise boats that you never just hop on a cruise do you have to plan for it you have to pay for it up front so you might be able to have speedboat sex for a long time but you're never going to have cruise boats sex and I should think about it really plan it and schedule it intentionally schedule it that's right which doesn't sound romantic but it actually is ah I think it can you who doesn't look forward to a cruise oh okay I've got to use a gourmet meal

[43:26]
instead bread and butter or maimial that might work for you um yeah so you look forward to that because you know it's coming and and it might not come very often but it should be there in the in the diet of any married couple speedboat cruise and what zodiac well I've sort of hinted at it it's more the adventiousum it takes you away from everyday habits and a sense of playfulness and risk maybe um and so it is a bit like we talked about back then if when your husband or wife

[43:58]
wants to try something different and you've got to say okay let's talk about this or or it happens and you say no I didn't like that um but it's just that more adventiousum thing and you will change over time like you will be more adventurous or it can be as you get older um and that's that's a really hard thing for a couple because if a wife comes to life again in a forties or whatever and starts to be more pursuing and more adventurous the guy has then got to go you would think he

[44:29]
would go isn't that great I've got a willing lover but sometimes he doesn't sometimes he goes hang on who's in charge here you know what what is this person and so it's a matter of being able to say over your long marriage let's try something different can we go for a cruise you know can we have a gourmet meal and then can we try something else so I don't want to give you the details of what you have to do I just want you to be able to talk about sex in your marriage and it is a topic that doesn't get talked about very much so we are going to very bravely talk about sex

[45:06]
as a way um we're going to do our stool thing I'll do it okay so who's been at refresh one and two okay so there are there are lots of people who haven't we were wondering whether we would do this again but we thought it was quite helpful we do what's called the pillow talk remember where I hold the pillow and Scott has to listen supposed to be the other way around but he's too scared so he said would you do it again um it's a tool we use to help couples learn how to listen to each other

[45:43]
so you all know that what are you doing I'm just trying to get away from the I thought you get away from me that's a long way to talk um refresh one I had talked to Scott about my birthday and how he really disappointed me on my birthday do you remember that what birthday is coming up next week this week 60th birthday 60th what's he going to do hey after today and then last year I talked about our house

[46:16]
and trying to talk about whether we could uh or change the unsized from our house and so what's the action point on that Scottie from a whole year ago we've had people coming up to us all year saying well what's happened with your house well I got this message today can you see that settled so our house actually settled this morning not the sale of the buy-off one the buyer so we've actually bought our future house so these pillow talks work

[46:47]
um but we don't want to talk about anything too too personal but we do want to for those who have never seen a pillow talk um show you how it works I'm going to have an issue around intimacy with Scottie I'm gonna talk to him he's going I'm gonna pass the pillow back to him he's going to reflect back to me what he has heard me say back and forth back and forth until I feel he's got it and then we're going to take it one step further than that this year and show you how to talk about

[47:17]
um sex as a way together okay so we'll do that quickly now this is not pre planned by the way so I don't know what she's going to say but but for those of you who haven't seen this before this is an excellent form of communication because it helps you to to stop and listen to the other person without defending so my role is not to defend or even agree with what Kim saying it's just to tell her what I've heard her say yep you've got a mic

[48:01]
okay so we're going to try and talk about sex as a way but first I need you to listen to the issue I have okay and the issue not the issue I have is to do with variety I have a sense that we've slipped into quite a rut where in the business of life we've been doing the same thing for a long time and I feel that I am getting just a sense of I would like something more and I haven't been

[48:39]
able to talk to you about it yet so what um so it's about our intimacy and and what you're saying is you're feeling that the way we've been making love has been very much of a pattern or a rut or the same sort of thing and you'd like to have more variety in what we're doing yeah and I think the

[49:10]
difference is now that I am on the older come alive sort of stage but I probably gave off indications over a long time of being tired and you know it's just too much effort and all the rest of it but now I feel like we've got more time we've got more privacy we don't have many kids around and yet we've stayed in the same sort of pattern and so I just look at the next whatever

[49:41]
years and go we don't need to stay like that anymore we could actually invest in this a bit more and and so so I want to talk about one particular thing that would be helpful but is that enough for now? it's probably enough but um so because life has changed so we've got into patterns of what we've

[50:11]
been doing and and also I guess I'm reading into where we've been doing it as well that it's changed from what we used to do before we had kids and maybe there could be more relaxing stuff and more different stuff where we might make loving different parts of the house or something like now but I'm I said I was reading into it I said I was reading into it so so you'd just like a little bit more variety now that no one's home so the whole house is is possible

[50:47]
we're either not good at this or you're just jumping way ahead but yeah I think you have picked up the fact that we we used to have a lot more playfulness a lot more risk a lot more interesting things happening before children and now that we're with our children why can't we get some of that back and I think a lot of the sense of we we could fall into we're just too old for that or that feels weird but you know there are other rooms in the house there are lovely fire side you know we're on the fire things that used to we used to enjoy so I just think it's time for us to look

[51:21]
at the next stage of life and go let's get back to being more lovers instead of just you know you coming to bed so late so tired so distracted that sexist just become well that's what we do bread and butter speedboat or whatever it is and it's just not just not fun and it's not going to it's fun when we go away but at home it's very much the same so let's I would like just to think about and talk about how we can enjoy that playfulness and enjoyment of each other the way we used to

[51:53]
here so as fun and as awesome as our sex is you'd like to be able to be more playful and just go back to some of the fun stuff we used to have in maybe those first four years before children where we just were able to relax and enjoy and play a lot more with each other rather than the the I guess the the standard bread and butter or even the cruise boat sometimes but do something

[52:25]
more zodiac I guess is what you're talking about. I didn't go to zodiac but there you go let's maybe talk about that yes you've got it yeah so that that's an example of where we just passed the pillow back and forward until it gets it we wanted to do this quickly because we know some of you've seen a lot of that sort of stuff going on but we wanted to take it to the next level where we actually go what do you do about that because when we ever we do that pillow talk we get so many

[52:59]
couples come so now what you know what do you do now and we're not going to demonstrate anything but we do talk about sex being the one topic that is like a grenade that comes and blows up between a couple isn't it what is it well it's it's not surprise I think we're talking about this before it's not surprising that that because your marriage is an image of Christ and the church

[53:31]
it shouldn't be a surprise to you that Satan is going to do everything he can to destroy it and he's going to keep lobbying grenades in the form of issues into your marriage all the time so issues are going to be happening all the time and unless you address them and address them as they come they're just going to build up until they become huge proportion and so what we've done in previous refreshes is we've given you a handle on how to work through those issues and break them down and dissolve them but what we've what we talk about with those grenades the

[54:04]
when those grenades land between you is to define what the grenade is and you know what a grenade lands in a bunker in a war movie another ghouls and I want to talk about that but when a grenade lands in a bunker in a war movie the guys pick it up and throw it out as quick as they can and so that's what you need to do is to identify the grenades that land in your marriage and then throw them out which means defining what they are so that process that we've just done there is helping to define what is the grenade yeah it's defining what the issue is so what we then like

[54:39]
to do rather than then facing each other with the grenade between us and pointing fingers of blame is we like to then physically even sit on the lounge together you know holding hands or something like this and toss the grenade into something across the room and then just define what it is yeah so that's the grenade with over there and then together we work out a we we're not blaming each other we're now working out what we can do and I'm starting to get intrigued just to what's going to come out now I've got to do it quickly anyway so what do you see the issue as

[55:15]
now that I've explained it well the issue is that you would like to be able to have more variety and more playfulness and adventurous in our sex life yes and how we can do that I've got one answer okay well you can install the tripees no the thing is the thing is it does come back to the fact that life is very very routine at home and one of the big things is that you just

[55:51]
works so long into the night and I think that that's one of the things that we could work out better getting to bed at an earlier time together rather than you're coming to bed you know it's too tight it's too late and I'm so let's finish quickly yeah yep yep so that would be one thing we could do yep and another thing well another thing we could do would would be to when there is like none of the kids are at home and hopefully Todd's not going to turn up at the last minute looking for a

[56:26]
drum kit he's left at home or something that we might be able to just enjoy the rest of the house that would be nice especially in winter yes near the fire okay actually I think one of our children was conceived by the fire but that was a long time ago that was a long time ago we could go on and on and we haven't got the time to do it but it's a sense of looking at that and going what can we do about it now rather than me blaming Scott or Scott blaming me well it's your fault you're always false leave all these things that are that we can talk about that as a way and we have run out of

[57:00]
time on that I hope that that's helpful just to talk about sex couples don't talk about sex very often they talk around it they make hints they and you hope people are picking up the hint they wonder why you haven't picked up the hint and yet you very rarely have a conversation like that where I can actually say this is what's going on for me rather than why don't we ever do doubt it are anymore and make it feel like we're criticising him okay so Dan I need your input on

[57:32]
that because we've run out of time even though we were going to get you to have a go at that it's now 10 to 4 and we're supposed to have we're going to get you to practice we were going to get a couple talk trying to use the pillow and that or do you think we should move on to we're out of time yeah he don't want to do it I can understand that look so what we will do is give you homework right yeah and the homework is for you to be able to think through some of the things that have come up today through your sex talk and through the

[58:07]
other things and and if you if you're concerned about it or if you just want to make sure that you are heard then try that pillow talk technique do you get it I didn't interrupt Kim and I didn't tell her what she should be thinking but and even when I tried to interpret what she was saying she picked me up on it so just try to be able to communicate to each other that way practice the pillow talk it's a really helpful way and then together face your chairs together and work out your solution for it okay