Q&As with Women in Ministry in 2024
By Liz Fong
Chris Mann (Cornerstone Box Hill, Sydney) and Rob Abboud (MBM Church Blacktown, Sydney) launched churches in 2024!
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TRANSCRIPT:
The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
0:15
G’day, I’m Pete Hughes and welcome to The One Thing, a podcast designed to give you one solid a practical tip for gospel centred ministry.Every week.One Thing’s brought to you by Reach Australia and we would love to see thousands of healthy, evangelistic and multiplying churches all over our country.And multiplying churches means church plants.
0:33
We want to see 300 church plants by the end of 2030.So far we’ve helped launch 13 new churches this year.I’m really excited because two of those churches planted this year were in Sydney and today we actually have those planters in, so I’ve got Chris Mann from Cornerstone Anglican at Box Hill.
0:50
G’day.Chris.Hey, Pete.And Robert Bude from MBM Blacktown.Yeah.Thank you.Great to be here.These guys are in to talk about what it was like to launch their church because they’ve recently launched.But before we get into this, what’s one thing that you think God’s teaching you right now, Rob?
1:09
Very good question.I just continuously, for me it’s been total dependence.One thing I know about Chris is that he is a man of prayer and it’s always something that I’ve found impressive in him.It’s something that I’ve struggled with.
1:25
And so starting this church and continuing on, I’ve found God has continued pushing me to totally depend as I want to keep pulling back the Rems.So this has been a big learning lesson in that.Yeah, yeah, planting certainly takes you to your knees in terms of pray.
1:41
Chris, what about you?What do you think God’s teaching you right now?Yeah, gracious man, Rob, I think, yeah, I’ve just been reminded that Jesus is the King of kings and that in planting there’s so many different things that happen.
1:57
And what Rob was saying is, yeah, we what need to be depended on him, and that Jesus is still on the throne.He’s in control.Yeah.Man, there’s great things to learn and actually we were talking just before we we came on the important how church planting actually changes you as a pastor, and we should do a whole episode on that.
2:15
But we’re not, because today you have press play on another episode of The One Thing launching a church plant.Today’s podcast is brought to you by worship tools from CCLI.Need planning, presentation, and worship software that’s simple, powerful, and free?
2:30
You need worship tools?Discover more at worshiptools.com, part of the CCLI family.And now back to the podcast.All right, guys, I want you.You guys both planted fairly recently.Chris, how long ago was it for you?
2:46
You’re in Week 6 now.Yes, we planted on the 25th of August, so bit over a month.Whenever that was.Rob, how long ago did you plan?We just had our 9th week yesterday.OK, terrific.Now I want to take me back to the day one, the launch day.
3:06
I want you to take me back to that hour before the service is about to start.What’s going through your head, Rob?We hit a point about an hour before the service where none of our brand new sound equipment was working.
3:21
So I was just watching the teams scatter stress and I started thinking I’m going to have to shout through this sermon because their their faces were not giving me confidence.And so I started getting my wrestling voice into action, thinking what I was going to do.
3:40
My mag guy, the guy was overseeing all the stuff.I could see in that moment of stress, he was just disappearing backwards and backwards.And I thought, Oh no, what’s going to happen?A moment of, as I said before, how are we going to trust God in this?
3:56
What is he doing?Almost like he was pulling all the plans we’ve made, pulling it out of our hands.So we had to trust him.Everything else was everyone was happy, every everything was good, but we were just stressed about what was going to happen with the sound.And then about 10 minutes before the service, something clicked into action and the sound came back on.
4:16
OK.And.Everything was going smooth, Yeah, so.Thanks God.Yeah, there was just a real everything, a real test of how we’re going to respond.So that was a really that.Yeah, that was a very stressful kind of thing.So you’re probably not even thinking, hey, we’re about to start a church.No, it’s just very exciting.
4:32
You’re just going, how do I turn the sound on and get a mic?Exactly, Yeah.Did you have any space for any of the visitors who were coming in?It was all kind of yeah, clouded.Oh.Wow.Yeah, Chris, what was it like for you?Like the hour before the service starts?What was going through your head?Yeah, I’m very thankful that the sound was working.
4:51
That just sounds pretty stressful for me.It was a really nice time, a little bit less stressful than that I was.Yeah, just wandering around, seeing our team leaders just marshalling their crews and just, yeah, just looking at them and feeling really proud and just really thankful for them.
5:09
And as they were just kicking in into gear.And I think another really cool thing for me was that there was some mentors and mates that had calmed to cheer us on and that they were there standing alongside us and supporting us, which was awesome.I I was there for yours and your team, like, I mean, you did a great job as a planter, but your team just did an outstanding job of just welcoming people in, funnelling people in.
5:34
What were were you sitting there consciously thinking we’re about to start a church?Was was there anything like that going through your head or were you just focused on the people around you it?Was all a bit surreal, to be honest.All a bit surreal.God is always kind.And I think, yeah, in that moment, he just guarded my heart and mind with his, with his peace.
5:55
But yeah, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s hard to take that moment to actually go, oh, this is actually what we’re doing.So, yeah, yeah.OK, so you get through the service, get through all the things, everyone packs down.You go home that night.What?What’s going through your head then, Rob?
6:11
I mean, you’re probably going.I am so thankful that sound equipment works.But what?What’s.Yeah.Yeah.Well, you, as you sit back and you reflect on the day, what’s going through your head?Yeah.Definitely, as Chris said, a great thankfulness for our congregation, our group, our teams.I sat down at home and felt very humbled.
6:31
Just reflecting on what God had done in years of planning in, you know, months of intense planning that we had a church that met in a in a new area, saw visitors come in and people were encouraged.
6:46
The word was taught and just that, well, God just did that this morning.I felt very humbled and thankful.Yeah, well, you, Chris.Sorry, I should say also very exhausted.Yeah, yeah.Emotionally exhausted.It was a huge build up and then of whoo yeah, let down.
7:03
Yeah, I was going to say those two things.I was going to say exhausted and amazed.Yeah.So I think I’ve said this to my wife a couple of times.I said why am I more tired having only preached once on a Sunday as opposed to like 4 times at our old church?And she’s like, well it’s because, you know, you’re thinking about all these different things.
7:21
And so I came to that Sunday night feeling just a bit shattered, but also just amazed.Standard Look at what God did I?Don’t for me my, my experience of church planning, I felt it was like it was like a wedding, right?So there was all this big build up to this big event kind of thing.
7:38
And then you get to the end of it, you go, OK, done.And it’s like, what’s next?It’s sort of like, oh, we’re married now and things have started and it’s sort of like that.So I want to ask actually, I want to come back, step over to the question of what was the next week like?Because you know, you have this big build up to the launch and things kind of start.
7:56
But the next week you kind of go, oh, we’ve got to do this again and again and again and again.And as you said, Rob, you know, you’re like going, oh, I’m really tired.Are we going to have to do this all again next week?What, what?What was that like?Yeah, I think for me.Did hang on, did your sound work the second week?It did the second week, but the screens didn’t work.
8:13
The second week we had sound, I was going.Something.Crazy for me I’m, I’m a huge extrovert so I die for the people every week I’m just Get Me Out there with the people and I’m a natural troubleshooter.So getting home thinking through OK, how are we going to do this better next week was exciting for me got home exhausted but yeah, keen as to get back in, meet with the team again.
8:40
We had a team meeting that week with our core team and they were all excited, keen to start working on little bits and pieces that we had noticed and needed to improve.So it was really exciting kind of going.I was really so raring to go the next week.Mariotica.Yeah.Yeah.What about you, Chris?Yeah, I think like, as I mentioned before, like that first week, it just felt really surreal.
8:59
But I think that second week the reality of what we did sank in more as the dust is settling and as people are coming back and we realise, oh, like it’s, it wasn’t just the one event.Like obviously we knew that the whole time.This is what we’ve been gearing up for.
9:15
But that second week was, oh, here we go.Right.We’ve we’ve planted a church.Yeah, the other thing was, I imagine with you guys as well, a number of visitors came in and for us we were keen to re meet them, see how we can engage them, help them land and just keep loving them ongoingly as you said, like it wasn’t just a one off, but it’s like OK, we’re doing life with these people now and so yeah, keen to do that.
9:41
Well, that was a question I wanted to ask actually, Chris, I wanted to ask you about, you know, you had a lot of guests there for the launch, but how many people kind of came back the next week where they did?You feel like there were a lot of new people, not just your team, but they were.You were starting to actually build a church.Yeah, that’s right.
9:56
Yeah.Like that first week for launch, we we knew and anticipated that there would be a number of guests, family, friends, supporters, people cheering us on and there were.And obviously, you know, you’re not going to get that number back that second week, but it was really encouraging that second week seeing people that returned.
10:18
Awesome.And just, yeah, as I said, as the dust settles, seeing who’s going to stick and because that’s what you’re praying for.Yeah, Yeah.OK, tell me a bit more about the lead up.Right.So this is the launch day.How long were you meeting with your team before you actually got to?
10:34
Launch, Yeah, yeah.So we had a bit of a long lead up.So we had been meeting with our team since the start of the year, right, OK.And we had people join us over the course of the year.Yeah.If you could go back and redo that lead up process again, is there anything you would do differently?
10:55
Yeah, it’s a really good question.I think the long lead up was helpful because as we launched we were people coming from different churches and so it actually bonded us together.And so, yeah, because you, you are coming, you did have a team from it was at least three different churches, possibly might have been some other people.
11:12
So getting alignment was really, really key for you.Sorry.Yeah, keep going.Yeah, Yeah.So that was like super helpful in terms of vision stuff getting us all on that same page.And so when we launched, it was pretty, pretty clear who the new people were.If we could have made it a little bit shorter, maybe that would have been good.
11:31
But then as I’ve been chanting to people, they appreciated it and it sort of felt like it went by too quick almost.So it’s that it’s that hard tension.What’s the ideal?Yeah, that’s a hard 1, isn’t it?Yeah, because you what?If you go too long, it’s like, what are we doing?Go too short?
11:46
People aren’t in alignment, so it doesn’t quite work.But yeah.Rob, tell us about your lead up.How How long before launch did you start meeting with your team and how did that work?We announced the idea of the plant nine months before and then started meeting monthly from just the start of this year.
12:03
So we met probably four or five times in between.We had some socials and prayer meetings, so kind of maybe twice a month.Yep.Then we had four on site practise services, right, Two months before.Yep.And I think that was really helpful to kind of have a go and see, you know, if only we tested the sound.
12:22
Actually, we didn’t have the sound gear for our practise services.Oh, OK, I was, that was my, that was my question.Did you actually practise the sound?We did right.So this was like the day one you went, OK, let’s see if this works and.Yeah, it’s cool.But then we we encouraged our whole group.This is from encouragement from Paul Young, who said they took a month off before they started.
12:43
And so aware that our all our teams were already serving in their church roles at Rooty Hill and and outside, they’d been doubling up meetings and then joining teams to launch with us.And so aware that they were probably going to be exhausted when we started.So we actually took the whole month off, gave them all a break and kind of encourage them on how to say goodbye to their congregations.
13:05
And we did one social, I think, in between and then started strong.And I think it was helpful advice to heed from Paul.So you you would recommend having that month off before you start, before you kind of?Hit the depends on the context.It worked for us because we were still heavily involved in our other services before we started.
13:23
Maybe for for Chris because they’d already left their churches and had started.It might be different, but I think it worked for us.Because most of your team actually came from MBM, Rudy Hill.So there was a certain amount of ministry alignment of coming from the same church.And so you didn’t have to kind of bring that into the team as much.
13:40
That’s right.We were.It was important for us to hold the DNA as we’re going to be another Church of MBN that people had already been serving and involved.Yeah.Were the things that you found in your lead up that you you’ve been.Oh, look, we’re all from the same church, so we’ll be fine.But actually there were some unexpected kind of things from that.
13:57
Oh.Yeah, big time.Just, you know, I think our old minister Ray used to say until you’re sick of saying it, people haven’t heard it.Oh yeah, Just a load of assumptions within our teams of values and things that we thought were important, how we do things that we probably didn’t realise, Maybe a number of people hadn’t heard it.
14:14
Yeah.And so just at the moment, yeah, new, new ministries as we’re doing things are realising, oh, we needed to work harder on that alignment and things, not in a bad way, sure, but just for that real unity within the teams.Yeah.I think alignment’s such an important thing for church plants because everyone has a picture of what they think the church plants going to look like.
14:32
Yes.And you’ve got a picture of what you think the church plants going to look like.Yes.And what it actually looks like is probably something different.Yeah.But just managing all of those expectations of, you know, how that’s all going to work.But yeah.Yeah.Yeah, that’s right.I feel like that’s so important.
14:48
And I feel like this year it’s almost like you’re you’re saying the vision and you’re casting the vision almost every week.And you sort of think, am I doing this too much?But it’s like, no, it’s important.You need to be dripping it in almost every week.Oh, yeah, no, that’s right.And there was another ministry that I was involved with and we had a guy who did the the ministry.
15:05
He did this vision kind of thing.And it was to the point where as he got up to do this, everyone like there’s a couple of mates and we could almost verbatim give him the thing back.But The thing is now that we look back on it, we go, that was the vision and that’s what and we’ve got that and we’re living it and it’s such an important thing.
15:21
So yeah, just keep, keep, keep gotta repeating that.It’s, it’s hard work.OK.So that’s sort of the lead up, some of the lessons that you may have learnt from there.If you could do week 1 again, I guess you’d test the sound equipment.Is that right or wrong?What else would you do?
15:38
What else would you do differently?It’s a great question.I think we worked like I’ve been trying to think through what would we have done different as we reflected on it.We had things to fix up.But but as we go back, I think if we were going to do anything different, we would have.
15:56
I think we’d thought about it in every area that what we did we had agreed was what we were going to do.I mean, maybe of course testing the sound that that’d be a smart.Sure.Yeah, yeah.But if anything, we we actually did very different than what Chris did.
16:13
We encouraged visitors and family friends not to come because we wanted to start with our group and the visitors they wanted to bring the the those who didn’t believe yet who want to come in.So we intentionally kind of guarded that.But we rely probably hit more heavily only on the personal invitations of people from our church and on the social media levels of our MBM name and and Internet like website and things.
16:44
I think we needed to do a post out mail out, which I think you guys did.I think we needed to let the area know we were coming in and we had a number of visitors and our people were so keen to invite.But because we’re in a school similar to you guys, we don’t have a face during the week.Yeah, but we can’t leave a sign out the front.
17:02
We rely heavily on our people and on social media and so I think we needed to let the community know we’re coming.Right.OK, OK.Which we can still do.Yeah, that’s right.Yeah, Yeah.I mean just that reliance on your people inviting people, does that actually do they feel that?
17:17
Because I I’ve seen one church who they go, we just intentionally don’t advertise because we want our people to invite their friends and we can’t.So.Well, there’s a sign there.So people will come and go.No, they’re not going to come because of the sign.They’re only going to be come because of you.And I mean, that’s extraordinary pressure to put on people.
17:33
Yeah.But on one hand, that’s that’s not a bad thing.Yeah.Is it Do your people?Feel that I, I think as, as we like we talked about the vision, drip feeding the vision.We, we were so privileged and I feel it to start with a group who was so excited to be doing this and they all knew why we were doing this.
17:49
I, I continue to encourage them.This isn’t my church.This isn’t something I’m doing.This is something God is doing with all of us.And they were so keen to do that.And so, at least at the start, all our people just so longing to see people saved.Yeah.That I don’t.I don’t even have to tell them to invite people now.
18:06
They’re all so excited to do it.Yeah.In time, as that changes and visitors come in, we’ll have to do something different.That’s right.At the moment a huge privilege for that community.Yeah.And there are different stage in a church plant, there are different stage life stages, you know, particularly in the 1st 18 months, even though even really the first five years.
18:24
And yeah, we could do a whole new podcast on that as well.I think it’s particularly, I think one of the big ones that I found was when the number of new people starts to exceed your launch team and the launch team are kind of going 0.This is not our church anymore.
18:39
We’ve got to share it with everybody else.That kind of causes some interesting kind of things dynamics there.Chris, what about you?How, what would you, if you had your chance to do your launch to go over again?Is there something you would do differently?Other things that you would do differently?So, yeah, it’s a great question.I think I’m particularly, yeah, really thankful for our launch.
18:57
So we for our team, we just sort of said to our team, hey, what a great opportunity to invite family, friends and whoever to hear the gospel.And yeah, praise God that we had that opportunity.I think something I’m really also thankful for is that throughout the day there were just so many people from our launch team who were coming up to me saying, hey, Chris, look at this person that we’ve been praying for and that they’re here.
19:23
Sorry, let.Me, just start.Isn’t that an amazing thing?Because I think it’s actually really, really important, especially during busy times like that, to stop and go.Look what God’s doing.Like, look what God has done.Look at that prayer that was being answered.It’s such an important thing to do.Sorry.Yeah, just to highlight was when I was sitting down the front, I turned around and there was someone from our launch team and she introduced me to her friend.
19:46
And I knew the friend’s name because we’d been praying for her.And I just thought, praise God, this is awesome.How awesome is that?Yeah, that is great.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.I think something we had been tossing up and this is just like a really little thing was do we get someone from the launch team to share their testimony on the day?
20:05
We decided not to because we thought we’ll try to make the the service shorter and, you know, have the gospel really clear.But that was something we were, I was sort of tossing out.I’m content with our decision, but.That was sort of something that I had been throwing around.
20:22
Yeah, yeah.And it is also interesting because there’s a certain amount where you’re celebrating the stuff that your team is doing and then there’s sort of the partners that have helped get you there.But you also want this to be for people, like for people to come to hear the gospel.That’s the primary thing I think you want to focus especially on with the launch.
20:39
But yeah, now in terms of partners, that sort of thing, I actually want to ask a little bit.This is kind of weird because it sounds like it’s an ad, but I’m going to, you know, let’s call it an ad as it is The we did assessments with you guys in terms of leading into the plant.
20:56
How helpful was that process of assessment?Now, Robert, it was a little while before there’s a bit of a a time thing between the assessment and actually planting.Yeah, yeah.COVID got in the way a little bit.Yeah, COVID got there.But was it?How helpful was doing an assessment?Yeah, I found it really helpful.I found it just brought a couple of things.
21:13
One, coming out the other side with a recommendation brought a great level of confidence to keep pursuing this.I think if it had said don’t do this, it would have been a good moment to say, right, nothing to do, which on the other side it also brought some reality.
21:29
So there were good people asking good hard questions, digging into all areas of life.And you kind of couldn’t pretend having your wife sitting there as well, you know, so you can’t pretend in front of your wife.And so I found it super helpful to be realistic and for these good people around to journey with me.
21:49
Sure.With that confidence that it gave, yeah.Is it something we didn’t?If you can cast your mind back that you think we could have done better with the assessment.Oh.Wow, I’m.Asking this question because I’ve got an assessment this afternoon, I’ve got to do one this afternoon.So this is not, this isn’t just my podcast, this is actually to me.
22:05
Different, I can just keep doing what you were doing, which was asking the hard questions.I think we we, as we do those assessments, we so want church plans to happen and rightly so.But sometimes we can be so for the people that we shy back a bit from those harder questions.
22:21
And so if that means, you know, a few months or even a couple of years, hold back time for someone who needs to deal with some stuff, I think really helpful.So keep doing that.OK.Thanks, man.I appreciate that.Chris, how did you find your assessment?Now this is a bit awkward because I did your assessment so you.Did.That’s right.
22:37
I remember it.Yeah, Yeah, that’s right.I said, oh, you know, the person that did our assessment, he was no good.That’s not.What I expected, yeah.What, what were the things that you found helpful about doing the assessment that that as you came into actually doing the the launch, the plant that you found that?
22:53
Yeah, that was helpful.Yeah, like I think for us it was really encouraging.Like it was Helen and myself and yourself and some others in a room for a couple of hours asking the hard questions.And so it’s a it’s a vulnerable place to be in.
23:11
But also, yeah, it’s, it’s, I think it’s a helpful thing as people are sort of weighing things up and they’re praying through planting.And that’s exactly what we were doing.We were we were praying and thinking, is this something we think God wants us to do?
23:27
And just having some wiser people speak into our situation was just really helpful.I.Think it’s interesting that both of you have come to it going, I don’t know whether I should be a planter and that’s how you come to the assessment rather than, yeah, I want to do this and I’m just looking for the rubber stamper.
23:43
I’m looking.So it’s helpful, I think for people to hear that.I don’t know whether I should be planting Assessment’s probably a good way of working that out.Chris, do you reckon is there anything we could have done better?Keep in mind, yeah, be don’t be nice just because I’m sitting here.But yeah, what could we have done better, do you think, in the assessment?
23:59
Yeah, it’s a really good question.I I can’t think of too many things on the top of my head, to be honest.Sure.I think the, the follow up was really helpful.So Derek followed us up and gave us some things to be working on and to be thinking about.
24:17
But yeah, I, I think, yeah, for, for us, we came in kind of open handed as you were saying.And I think that was helpful posture to to come into it with.But now I think you guys asked the hard questions and they were important to ask.So it was good.
24:33
All right, guys, let’s get to the one thing.What’s the one thing?If you were giving advice to someone, maybe, you know, if you were giving advice to yourself a week before the launch, but giving someone, what’s the one thing that you you really want people to keep in mind as you’re about to launch a church?
24:49
Rob, you’ve got a one thing.Yeah, I think it’s so easy to put our confidence in ourselves and our teams and our plans, but just continually trusting that God is the one who does the work, who transforms hearts.
25:05
And so just keep trusting him.He’s going to do it.That’s awesome, Chris.That’s it.I’ll just feel like saying Amen.I’ll still Rob’s One thing I was going to, I was going to say praise what you were saying at the start.Like, I just think, yeah, so often we can be tempted to rely, rely on our own strength, forgetting that we have our Father in heaven who says ask, seek, knock.
25:30
That’s great.I’m glad, you know, we managed to get one thing.So that’s a good thing in the toolbox.A couple of things there.You’ll see.We’ve got the Church Planting podcast and I want to say even if you’re not planning to plant a church, this is an awesome podcast.There’s a bunch of things there because really every church is a plant.
25:45
Like even if you’re 600 years old, you’re still a plant somewhere.So you need to keep thinking planting.And these are really great episodes.I can’t talk to highly enough.I didn’t do them, Derek did and Derek and Maddie.So make sure you jump onto that.We talked a little bit about the assessment and the first step of that is of course, the Gospel Workers Questionnaire and the Church Planting Questionnaire.
26:04
So the links are there also the Reach Australia national conference coming up next year, we’re actually going to have a whole conference dedicated to planting.So if you’re thinking about planting, if you’re had a chance to kind of maybe think about should your church plant, this is the one to come along to.
26:22
I think these guys will be there so you can see them in the flesh.It’ll be fantastic.I might put your your respective websites.So if you’re kind of going, hey, I live in Blacktown or at Box Hill because there’s thousands of people moving into both those areas or you’ve got a friend who think you think should go to those churches that’s also there in the toolbox.
26:41
Chris and Rob, mate, thank you.You guys have been awesome.Thank you so much for joining us today.It’s.Our pleasure.Oh, it’s been privilege.Thank you.If you’ve got a topic you want us to cover or you want to give us some feedback resources at reachaustralia.com dot AU, make sure you check out the website and the new resources page.
26:59
I’m Pete Hughes, chat soon.
