Q&As with Women in Ministry in 2024
By Liz Fong
Reach Australia is about reaching Australia, but our network is spilling over to other countries as well. Josh Johnston from The Tron Church in Glasgow was part of the team that came to Reach Australia’s National Conference this year. He reflects with Scott Sanders about:
TOOLBOX:
Greg’s Workshop will be coming soon…
Gary Millar: For the Glory of God
Gary Millar: For the Good of His People
Gary Millar: For the Joy Set Before Us
CREDITS:
This episode was brought to you by Church Suite
The One Thing is brought to you by Reach Australia
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TRANSCRIPT:
The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
G’day Scott Sanders, welcome to The One Thing, a podcast designed to give you one solid, practical, gospel centred ministry tip every single week.You can probably hear from the crowd noise that we’re recording live at the Reach Australia National Conference.Hopefully you’ve already had a chance to download a bunch of resources.
0:34
I’m praying that there’ll be conversations that have been started that will be happening in your leadership teams, amongst your teams, amongst your ministry teams.I hope the fruit of this week is a whole bunch of conversations that continue on for the rest of the year until next year’s conference.
0:51
Now the Restraint Podcast is brought to you by Reach Australia.We wanna see thousands of healthy evangelistic multiplying churches all across Australia.And you press play on another episode of the One Thing We’re going to be Hearing from Josh Johnston from the Chan Church.Today’s podcast is brought to you by Church Sweet, versatile, easy to use software helping you stay organised in your Kingdom pursuit, trusted by thousands of churches, always improving, passionately supported and here to stay.
1:19
Head to Church sweet.com.And now back to the podcast.Just now before I welcome Josh Johnston, that’s a bit of a mouthful.Josh is come all the way from Glasgow to the 2024 registration National Conference.
1:37
He’s part of a multi site church in Glasgow which is a city in Scotland.Josh, welcome to The One Thing.Thank you.It’s good to be.Here I’ve got to, I’ve got to settle the scene for Australians because like, you know, I don’t think we know much about Scotland.Most of us would probably only really know about Edinburgh, the Tattoo, the Royal Mile and of course our Mel Gibson’s brother, I mean William Wallace.
2:03
Yes, well, Scotland, it’s, it’s a beautiful place.It’s almost as good as Northern Ireland and that’s where I’m from and people will know Edinburgh.But the the saying we have is that Edinburgh has the looks, it’s a nice city, but Glasgow has the personality.
2:19
Beautiful, beautiful.I think that’s what often people say of me now.Now how does an Northern Irishman end up in Scotland of all places?That I didn’t get into university where I wanted to go.
2:38
OK.So Nottingham had been the plan but ended up in Glasgow to study and I’ve been there ever since.So been there for 16 years.Moved to study theology that was keen to do ministry.At the end of my theology degree realised it didn’t really have much of A clue about ministry so started an apprenticeship similar to MTS in Australia at at the Tron Church.
3:03
So it’s about 12 years ago and they haven’t been able to get rid of me.So how did you become a Christian then?Grew up in a going to church, my mom and my brothers, so always was in the orbit of the church.
3:21
But a significant thing for me was my brother and my middle brother and was quite difficult as a teenager, not very pleasant, but came to faith and and was just completely, completely transformed and was a new person.
3:38
And suddenly I took note and you know, a year or so after that, after his sort of run relentless and explaining the Gospel to me again and again, Kim’s fifth and and thought, yeah, this is no, that’s awesome.
3:55
Do you Jesus?Jesus changes lives.Beautiful.Now one of the things I love about the registration network is that it’s it’s diverse, it’s all over the place and you’ve heard about the network through I think Andrew heard heading over to England and Scotland and and doing a bunch of talks.
4:13
You were hoping to come out here before COVID and then COVID hit you finally landed.I I want to hear what have you personally been challenged by during this year’s difference?Yeah, many things, but one, it’s not been so much from anyone session, but just from spending time with folks in their network and there’s such a there’s such a sense of endeavour and kind of can do attitude here and that really challenges and rebukes me.
4:45
I remember running one of our Randstad courses a long time ago at church and there’s maybe two visitors at it.And if you’d said to me it be possible that, you know, you could have 50 or 60 non Christians coming on to of course at church, I’m not sure they believed you.
5:02
And we’ve wonderfully had had had that kind of thing happening at church.But yeah, it’s usually you, you, you carefully, you can say you have, you’ve had 50 or 60 people come.I mean, is praise God, isn’t that great?Isn’t that fantastic?
5:18
You know, that sounds like it’s a whole effort of ministry team.You know, Paul who’s not here, you know, one, you know, wonderfully gifted and seems a very tenacious bloke who just sort of chases, chases people down.I mean, give thanks.
5:33
That’s great.That’s great news.It is.It’s a God.And indeed, we, we had a Dave Jensen did a mission consult with us as well a couple of years ago.And he asked the question to our senior pastor, you know, what would you like to see happen in five years time?
5:48
And he gave a number that you’d like us to grow to.And at the time, I just thought, Oh my goodness, that’s not going to happen.And as we, as we looked at it, actually we are seeing, you know, some growth and as you map it out that it might happen.
6:05
But there’s a natural I don’t know if it’s the the Presbyterian in me that just there’s a slight bit of an error about me rather than a Tigger of.I’m here, I’m hearing that.But but it’s been wonderful to be with people who work hard at ministry, but also our our intentional purposeful and working and praying to the end.
6:30
Actually, there’ll be growth and wonderfully there’ll be growth in seeing people come to faith, mature and faith.And it’s been a, it’s been a challenge in conviction to me that actually praying about and dreaming about and trying to make happen exciting things is, is actually, you know, it’s worth, it’s worth doing.
6:52
Well, we didn’t get out and get a chance to take Josh down to the beach, but I’m sure he would have been jumping out of his skin, but it would have been muted, a muted jumping out of his skin.Now, as I, as I’ve alluded to, you’re here with with a number of guys for your from your team.I again, really wonderful to see, you know, not just one person come from team, but a group.
7:11
And that that’s again one of the exciting things we got groups of, of solo pastors with, you know, with lay members, you know, elder ships and ministry teams coming.It’s it’s one of a kind of come to a conference with others, you know, so you can separate, move around, experience the whole conference without having to necessarily miss out on anything.
7:30
So what has been the reflections of your team?Yeah, one of the things we’ve been reflecting on, we were now four or five years into implementing team pastoring and I think we’ve made good progress and seeing, seeing fruit from it.
7:49
But it just continually thinking in the in the background strategically about things and looking at church life what’s what’s maybe not working brilliantly or what what needs a bit of work.And we, we probably don’t yet think with the kind of ecosystem pathway stuff regularly in terms of how do we get a handle on just exactly where, where things aren’t quite going to Greg Lee’s session advanced ecosystem thinking or ecosystem thing again, again, again, just very stimulating on that, that actually which, which lever to pills who to one of his examples and people perhaps saying that they don’t really feel loved in this church and rather than just think, OK, we’re going, we’re going to form a team to, you know, visit people and all the rest.
8:42
Well, actually, what’s causing that problem and diagnosing actually could be mission heat.It could actually be that it’s a serving others problem where people aren’t being equipped and trained to look after folks in, in community groups, groups, groups while just just approaching issues that come up in church life with that kind of thinking.
9:03
We’re we’re mulling over how we how we do that better.So that would be.One thing I like to use the language of complexifying.I don’t think it’s a word but but but you’ve almost got a.That sounds like making it harder.Yeah, make, make it harder, make it harder before you can actually work it out.
9:21
And that was, it was a, a yeah.It was a really helpful session where he, you know, he mapped out on a number of different examples and gave us some tools for working out.That’d be a resource that will put in the in the show notes in the toolbox.And I think we were able to film it as well.So I’m hoping that we, you know, we can actually see the, you know, see the white board as he kind of, you know, wrote, rode around and moved around and, and thought about.
9:42
It it was excellent, very helpful.You are working in the, in the membership space or the belonging community space.Has there been a particular, you know, particular standout thing that you’ve learnt or you know, gone?
9:57
OK, that’s been really helpful.I’m gonna be able to implement that as I head back home.And probably probably the thing we’re actually been thinking about implementing most isn’t really in that area.But I think we what we’re landing on is we need to work actually the leadership development side of it.
10:18
So the the more serving side and.So in that you’re thinking particularly of of just, I guess raising the development across all layers in in church life.So we offered about the leadership pipeline moving from team member to team leader to area leader or ministry area leader to senior leadership team.
10:37
Yeah, that’s right.So we, we’ve implemented this about four or five years ago and we’ve had a one of our ministers responsible for each, each area of things and, and been trying to build together teams.And and that that’s happened a bit.
10:53
But actually someone used the illustration of want to grow the skeleton, not the flesh and acts in a sense for a, for a church to groove for actually people, for people to be coming to faith and cats and loved and matured and takes effort and working people and involved in ministry.
11:13
And, and so actually hitting some of the the barriers to growth and is because actually things aren’t functioning well so that people can actually be loved and cared and nurtured in all these areas.And, and that that’s where we’ll, we’ll be wanting to put a bit of bit of thought.
11:30
It’s, it’s slightly to do with our, our setting.And that’s the one area that’s sort of there’s a bit of double hatting.Those areas in church life where we we get to it last and we often just assume, assume each of the teams will do it and don’t actually give it any intention.
11:47
Which then means often that it’s the the person is the best recruiter who who gets all the people, which is can be unhelpful and and kind of lopsided in church life.And actually it’s an exciting thing because really behind it is wanting to see as many people as possible and serving to the best of their ability raised up to actually flourish them to use use polling polls language to to be the best ear and 2:00 and that they can be.
12:16
Yeah, beautiful.And I love how you’re you’re, you’re talking about as an outcome, you’re also talking about as a here’s where we like to get to.And there’s a real clarity that you guys have obviously had in your conversations.Here’s here’s where are now.Now you just got to work out how you’re going to get there.Indeed.
12:31
That’s for the plane trip home.Six hours back home.You’ll hopefully have it sorted out by then.Hopefully.Yeah, you you are not.You are a first time or second time on the podcast, but and a long time listener, what’s the one thing you want to say about the 2024 Reach Australia National Conference?
12:56
The one thing about this conference, I would say is it’s been tremendously encouraging, tremendously encouraging.It would almost make me want to come again all the way from Glasgow.
13:14
I think that’s the best you’re gonna get out of a Irishman.That’s that’s high price.Well, we’d, we’d love, we’d love it actually come, come back.But actually more than that, we wanna keep being generous and network.So as, as I said on the first day, you know, take back stuff.
13:32
I’d, you know, can I, can I pray for you and the team?Heavenly Father, we give thanks for your love and your goodness.Thanks for the Tron ministry team.Thanks for the way that you’ve used and gifted them and wired them.And, and we pray, Heavenly Father, that, yeah, the fruit of this conference might be greater unity amongst the team, but greater clarity about how they might see more and more people won for Jesus, not only in Glasgow, but in Scotland and, and across the United Kingdom as well.
14:00
We pray for Paul, we pray for Phil, we pray for Josh that you might strengthen them and encourage them that they might have a great joy in serving and following you.We are setting the mighty name of Jesus.Really great to have you on.In terms of the toolbox, we mentioned a couple of resources there from the conference.
14:20
I’m sure our team will put up a number that you’ve mentioned there, as well as some stuff on serving others from the ecosystem workshops of the conference, the Ecosystem Thinking Again talk that you also found helpful.And also, I’m gonna put a link to the Tron Church.
14:36
If ever you’re in Glasgow, hopefully there’ll be a whole bunch of churches in in Glasgow that you can check out, but definitely check out the Tron Church.Would be very welcome.I’m Scott Sanders.Chat soon.
