G Day, I’m Pete Hughes.You clicked on the Reach Australia podcast.Welcome.We have a great short talk for you today.It’s another talk from our national conference from 2024.Andrew Hurd is introducing us and transitioning us from loving God with our hearts to helping our church to love God as well.

Now this is an introductory talk.There will be more talk and more information given from a following talk from Rob Smith.But this is such a great talk just to introduce us to the idea and ask the right questions about what does it mean for churches to love God.

Who got the book?How thrilled are you to get that right answer?That’s good.Have you noticed in each of these occasions someone gets up to speak that they’re always asked what’s your favorite coast?

Part of the coast coastline.You notice no one’s asked me.Is there a reason for that?You know what your answer would be?Yeah, Right.Unfair advantage is what I understood, too, because it is the most beautiful part in the world.So that’s right.Well friends, I’m, I’m like your tour guide.

That’s why I’m here.These are quick 15 minute shots about offering insights into where we’re going and why we are here globally.Big picture for the whole conference to stir one another to be more effective at reaching Australia for Christ.

But what are we reaching Australia for Christ for?To what?To what end?What’s what is that to reach Australia for Christ?What are what are we seeking to do?Well, we’re, we’re seeking to pursue this cause with the gospel word by the power of the Spirit to bring people to a life of full salvation, full salvation where they’re saved from the penalty and the power of sin that God is at work.

He with his intention to remake those that are saved, not just to have bums on sea.This is not just about numbers.This is about lives completely transformed, reoriented, rescinded, changed into the image of the Son.That he would be our Lord, that we would be like him, that we would more and more love God, that we would love him with all our heart, mind, soul and strength.

And until we’ve moved people to that kind of conversion, they’ve not really been converted.Until people come to actually see that it’s about the first commandment being fulfilled in our lives and the 2nd commandment that we be people who love our neighbours, do all good in all possible ways, especially the way of bringing them to know the Lord Jesus themselves, to be saved from eternity without Christ.

Love God is our big concern.And that’s the conference to love the Lord our God and not just serve him like the elder brother in the parable of the prodigal son.Have you noticed in that parable how the repentant son uses the word father three times in his short speech?

I’ll go back to the father.I’ll say to my father.The elder brother in his short speech uses every possible way to avoid ever saying the word Father.Have you noticed that nonetheless he served the Father of the Son who went away?He served him in every possible way.

The salvation we bring by the gospel word is into adoption, into relationship with God.Not just as servants, but as children of the Father.We are adopted that we might now live for His glory, that his praise might be our delight.

That His purposes might now be our greatest desire.That’s what salvation’s about.That He would be at the centre again, as He intended and created us for.That we would know Him as our Father, live for Him, live for His desires.Not crucifer, dead to self, no longer living for our interests, ambitions and what we want in life, but could live for Him and His purpose.

That that would be our heartbeat.We are never after a crowd, big or small.This is not just a numbers game.It is about growth.It’s a bad growth that churches might grow, that we might add more churches and see people, men, women and children truly saved, fully saved from the penalty and power of sin.

And in this we play a crucial role.We are fellow workers with the Lord God.He and his Sovereign in scribble ways has given to us the task of proclaiming this message.We make a difference to the cause of the gospel.

It’s extraordinary that He’s laid upon us such a privilege now.Yesterday was about us and our heart.Are we ones as pastors, leaders, lay leaders?Are we ones who love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength?

Today we have chosen to focus our attention on the life of our church gatherings, the life of the Christian community assembled, and the issues and challenges as we move into this piece today are far more complex in our estimation and more contentious.

I’m not going to seek to solve them all in these few minutes.We’re past that hot potato to Rob Smith, who’s going to solve it all for he’s gone.He’s not even here now.He’s just disappeared on us.It is a challenging thing, but I do want to offer some thoughts.

Here’s here’s the kind of key thought for this moment.Is it possible we have a problem in our public gatherings that potentially grows out of the problem of their own hearts that Murray identified yesterday?

If it’s true that we as a group of people tend to be more prone towards believe and do and not be convicted and passionate, if we tend in that direction to those two faculties, is it possible that our public gatherings reflect something of that same shape?Is it news to you?

Is this is?Is this news to you that our gatherings, our services are not known for their enthusiasm?Hands up if you’re shocked.Now, should that concern us now?

For many it does concern them, but for others, they feel like there’s nothing here to see what’s the issue?Sure, they don’t inspire compared to other people in the way they report, but is that a problem really?And the fact that we have that difference amongst us might actually reflect an even deeper issue is that we’re we’re unclear on what our services are for, what our public gatherings are for.

What is it that makes a public gathering of God’s people on a weekend, on a Sunday, let’s say?What is it that makes them good?What is it?What does success look like when we gather together as God’s people?Now the answer to that question depends on having a clear purpose for our gatherings.

What are our gatherings for now?Yes, they’re for edification.I, I think that’s a, that’s a well embraced, understood concept amongst us.They’re for edification.I trust it is for you.But is that all they’re for?Is that a sufficient understanding of what it is that we gather together as God’s people?

There’s some questions to wrestle with, and they particularly are shown in terms of the way we sing, which Rob’s going to deal with today.But I want to offer another couple of thoughts.One is that culture is not neutral.Culture is not neutral.

There are great problems with various church cultures that have emerged over the centuries.There are dangers that have occurred and you’ll be alert to them.I trust there’s the great danger of private mystical experience, not only in the charismatic movement but also in high church liberalism, where people come to church to have a private experience in the context of others.

They come to have a private experience that is a consequence of us doing our works to ascend into the heavens, to pursue the moment, the experience, the numinous through the right kind of words, the chanting, the smells, the sliding, the sounds, the music being just so.

And we are right to correct that and rebuke it and encourage people in a different direction.Mysticism is a subtle and dangerous blight on true Christian experience, and there’s a new form of this arriving on our shores in recent days, a return to the teachings of medieval Mystics.

And we need to be alert to this.It’s not our works that unite us to our living God, or bring us closer to God.It’s grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone by Scripture alone, by the Word of God, that we are brought into a living relationship with God.

We come as worshippers who rest in the finished work of Christ, the finished work of the great worshipper who was entered into the holy of holies for us and takes us with him there.So we are now seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven by virtue of merely putting our faith in the finished work of Christ and His merits on our behalf.

It’s not by our efforts and works that we come into that relationship, but it is possible.We have spent so many years reacting against this kind of error that we’ve formed our own culture, which has its own problems.Hidden in the hand raising and the eyes closed is potentially a real and deep problem, but hidden in the hands that are either in our pockets or holding a cup of coffee when we sing praises to the living God and adore Him is hidden another real problem or not?

It’s complex.Do you know, in my experience of different cultures in prayer meetings, I find it I sit amongst the Welsh as they have their prayer meetings and they’re incredibly moving men pray deep and fervent prayers with great faith.

And at the end of the prayer, they say Amen and the crowd gathered loudly say Amen together, all Amen if you have to.But there’s a response that’s verbal and loud.I sit in Australian prayer meetings.People pray, but at the end no one others a word because we don’t know need to.

Well, why?Why would you?Because everybody knows that we’re giving a hearty Amen inside our hearts.And so it’s just an we know that, don’t we?Is that right?Amen.Now which is better, the Welsh or the Australian experience of prayer meetings?

Hidden in the heart of the Welsh is self righteousness and works theology as they go through the form of their pre meetings.Hidden in the heart of the Aussie is apathy and disinterest as they go through their pre meetings.

How do you know which is which?What’s the answer?Should we require women to say Amen?No, because we create an even greater problem.Some of the most engaged prayers, the prayers with the greatest faith, are those who are completely silent in their prayers.

Some of the most fervent adoring of God people in their sing are singing with their hands in their pockets.I don’t know that holding a cup of coffee works though.But but it’s, it’s hard to judge, isn’t it?

Because we’re dealing with a heart and every time you try and tackle the heart with an external, you have to in some fashion because the heart is seen in the externals.But every time you try and do it, you kind of misstep because the heart is not always seen in the externals.And it’s tricky, it’s complex.

But are we right to believe that the best remedy against emotionalism is Stoicism, which is what we’ve created very often?Do you know JC Ryle in that really very fine book, Holiness, And if you’ve not read it, chase it Up, warned against the danger of crowds gathering together to pursue the higher life.

He talked about sensational and exciting addresses by strange preachers.He was referring to yesterday.He’s he talks about hot rooms and loud singing and late nights shared deep experiences, sights of semi religious feelings in the faces of all around.

He wrote that in 1877.And he asks, do those who attend these meetings become more holy, meek, unselfish, kind, good tempered, self denying Christ like at home?Do they become more content with their position in life?Do they fight against materialism and greed more and more?

And he says, no, it’s all very good to chase.You must read it.It does not matter what you do with your hands.What matters is holiness.Yes and no.It’s complex.

Yes, holiness, but no, a holiness that’s private, that cares very little about the love of God and the affection of our Father in song, that cares very little about public expression of that love in our gatherings.

To adore and praise Him is a deficient kind of holiness.And it begs the question, of course, what do we come to do when we come to sing?What is that thing we’re doing?Rob will help us think through this.Like it or not, we are permission givers as pastors.

And it’s possible we’ve dealt with a very real problem or problems, mysticism, emotionalism, a return to Old Testament worship categories.It’s possible we’ve dealt with a very real problem, with a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel, with a kind of chemotherapy treatment that’s killed off the bad and lots of good, that crushes the green roots of life that’s emerging and a response of genuine, heartfelt love for our Father.

We crush that as we crush other things as well.This is not about hands in the air or not in the air.It’s not about eyes closed or opened.It’s it’s about our hearts and it’s about what church is for.What do we do when we come together?What’s the aim of what what?

What’s the outcome we’re after?What do we see?What does success look like in our public services?I’m not offering the answers.I’m raising some of the issues and I’m suggesting we might have a problem.And it matters that we deal with it.It matters that we deal with it.It matters that we deal with it in a way that’s covered by grace, that the Lord God loves his church in all its forms.

As we gather together with faith in his Word, in the living Lord Jesus, seeking to respond in obedience.He loves his church with all its ups and downs, however weaken, imperfect, however exuberant or introverted.He loves us as His Church.

So we do all of this with grace, without judgmentalism and condemnation.We are loved, but if we love our Father, it means that we need to deal with this issue for the sake of His glory, and we need to deal with it for the sake of the mission of reaching Australia for Christ.

Because church is an end in itself and a means of grace to empower us to be like Christ, to experience full salvation.Church is meant to radicalize us.Every week we’re meant to gather together and go out from church.

Mind, heart, soul and strength centred again, all of our hearts captivated again, to love the Lord, to pursue His purposes, to seek and save, to live lives of holiness.It matters that we work on our services together.

And so we’ve asked Rob to answer all the questions.I hope you enjoyed that talk.I hope you were challenged by it.The Rob Smith’s talk will be coming fairly soon, so keep an eye out for that.If you’ve got more suggestions or ideas that you would like to contact us with or you’ve got any questions, resources at richaustralia.com dot AU, I’m Pete Hughes.

Chat soon.