[0:00]
You're listening to a workshop from [music] the Reach Australia National Conference in 2026. This workshop is in community 101, building [music] gospel-shaped belonging. We pray this resource is fruitful for you and for your ministry. If you do find it helpful, [music] can you give $5 to help support the people and the network behind it? Your gift helps [music] us to make more gospel- centered resources available at churches across the nation. >> Good afternoon. Wonderful to be with you. As Sher said, my name is Tim uh Tim Clemens. I led the team that planted Grace City which is a church in Wateroo

[0:32]
and Rockdale. Now that was in 2015. Uh and then Diana down the front who you'll hear from more as we go through uh joined us about a year and a half ago. So 18 months and oversees our uh ministry and membership areas. And so that's our language uh particularly for the in community uh piece that we'll think about today. So this is uh in community 101 and we get the name from this diagram. Can I get these slides there or does that not work? Yeah, cool. Uh we get the

[1:05]
name from this diagram. You know you will be very familiar with this diagram. Uh and today we're talking about the in community purpose area and how it functions in the broader church ecosystem. Now just a heads up uh there are some slides that we're working through. uh they're available in the handout section on the website. My encouragement to you would be to make sure you have those in front of yourself. Some of the slides will come up. There'll be small writing on it. So, if you've got it on your own device, uh particularly as a

[1:35]
reference for later on, I think that will serve you uh afterwards. Wonderful. Thanks up the back. Uh before we press on, can I just get a quick show of hands who we have in the room? Do we have any senior leaders of churches in the room? Wonderful. any people who you know whatever you might call it would lead this area in your church either as a volunteer on staff great people who are serving in that area you know on the team in that space okay helpful great just good to know uh who we have in the room

[2:07]
now before we uh dive in I think it's worth asking what do we actually mean by this term in community uh because community is a funny word community really is just a way of describing a group of people who have something in common. That's the what the word means. And so there's a real sense in which our churches could be described as communities. The whole thing is a community because we share Christ in common. And so you could quite rightly look at this diagram and say, what does God want for our churches? He wants them

[2:38]
to be communities who are deep in the word, love God, are on mission, and serve others. And then you get to the community one and he wants us to be a community who is in community. You say what what does that ex actually mean? uh but I do think there is value in you know thinking about this in community uh purpose area this in community outcome but specifically pressing in and what we're trying to get at is that we want our churches we believe God wants our

[3:10]
churches to be communities where people are welcomed in or connected woven together today we're going to use the language of fellowship and wisely held and again that that's the language of care. Now, if you've heard me speak or you've kind of heard this area unpacked in the past, you might have heard the language of connection, community care. I believe EV's been talking about that uh for a number of years. That's where I stole the language from originally. Today, we're talking fellowship. That might feel like it takes you back to the

[3:41]
80s or the 90s. That's an old school word. But I find like community is just a confusing word to begin with. And then to have community as a subpurpose of in community left me scratching my head. And so today we're using the word fellowship. Hopefully that brings a bit of clarity uh as we go through. Uh but as the names suggest connection what we're talking about is welcoming people in and setting them up to belong well as part of our church fellowship.

[4:11]
It's about helping people to relate to one another and share in a common life together. And then care is about how people are supported especially in seasons of need. Uh one final thing before we jump in. Uh today is not really about uh telling you to do everything that we do. Uh we will share some examples from our churches uh from our church. Uh partly because just examples are useful to figure out you know what does it look like there. Uh but really our goal for today is to step

[4:41]
back and give you the principles so that you can apply the principles in your church. And so uh really what we're doing today is going to be working through this diagram. Uh you can see across the top outcome, theology, culture. That first those first three things are really just trying to help us get clear what what is the thing we're trying to achieve here. So we talk about connection. What actually is that? What is it? Why do we want to do it? Like what's the theology behind it? What

[5:13]
would what is the culture? So, if we were seeing this, what would it look like? What would it feel like in our churches? That's what we want to try and unpack there. And then as we move on uh for each of them, we'll try and give you a model. So, that's that's just like a framework. And again, you'll you'll see this as we go through. It's like when you think of this thing, if you just your mind goes to this framework, this model, maybe it'll help you uh conceptualize what we're talking about. Uh what's not here is some practices we'll give you because they wouldn't fit

[5:45]
on a diagram. Uh and then some metrics. Again, some of them are actual things to measure, some are just, you know, things to pay attention to if you like. Um so that's what we're going to be working through. And Diana is going to come up and take us through the first one. connection. >> Thanks T. Okay. Well, before we get to strategy, we have to start with scripture because the Bible must define reality before strategy. Thus, and so what is the brief theological vision for

[6:17]
connection? uh connection for us is about recognizing those whom God has brought into his heavenly church and intentionally receiving and forming them into membership in the local church. And so theologically, God in Christ is the one who will first welcome us. Um and and then whether you know whatever background we're in, the Bible says whether Jew or Gentile, male or female, free or slave, you know, that's God has welcomed into his family. and then us as the local church recognize and receive

[6:49]
those whom God has saved and embracing them as fellows members of Christ's body. So in short, we want to be churches that reflect God's welcome, receive others as God in Christ has received them like what it says in Romans 15:7. But connection doesn't end with welcome. It involves formation. Now as people are gathered into our churches, we have the responsibility to teach them and shape them into what go God God calls his

[7:20]
people to be. The New Testament consistently hold out some very clear expectations of those who belong to Christ's body. So to name a few, a genuine faith, a genuine saving faith in Christ Jesus, a growing commitment to holiness with persistent um with sins taken care of seriously. active participation in the life and growth of the body. Uh a commitment to one another in the life of the church. Uh regularly meeting with God's people for worship

[7:50]
and mutual encouragement. Now so connection is not just about helping people to arrive. It is really about setting them up to belong rightly and grow faithfully within the life of our churches. So what would it look like in a local church? So imagine a church where newcomers are not invisible. You know, they are noticed. They're welcome. They're follow up. They're help to take their next step. Where your members know how to start a conversation, introduce

[8:21]
someone and point a newcomer towards belonging. Um we mentioned about integration pathway. you know, how we can get people from being our first time guests, you know, return on the second time, come regularly, and then invited in to become members at our church. And so, we want our intentional pathway to not be hidden or assume. Uh we don't want people to decode what is the culture of this church. H and instead, the church says very clearly and warmly that we're glad

[8:52]
you're here. We love to help you to find your place among us. That's the culture we want to cultivate. Now, what frameworks help us to land there? Uh sometimes connection might feel like is an event. You know, people come, they turn up, the doors remain open, they're welcome to come back again. But if you think of it uh more carefully, there is a framework that could be helpful is to think of them uh think of this as three bridges that people need to cross. And so when they're first time with us um and we

[9:25]
want them to cross the bridge and come back the second time. So that's bridge one. The key question there is what makes someone want to come back and then they come back the second time. Uh we want them to keep coming you know being regular. So then we need to focus on what makes them feel is worth returning to. And then the bridge, the third bridge is how can we help those who come regularly to become a committed members at our church. So we asking the question what calls them into ownership and belonging.

[9:58]
Now this three bridge framework help us to diagnose where people are currently dropping off. So let's focus on bridge one up there. Bridge one. What makes people want to come back? Okay, to be honest, what makes someone wants to return after their first visit is a bundle of things, right? The preaching, you know, the welcome they feel, the music, the location, you maybe the station of life, the program you offer, maybe your building, like the vibe, anything can,

[10:28]
you know, attract someone to come back again. But most of these are actually beyond what uh an in community director can control. But there is something we can control is that the two things we can help people to cross that bridge. The first one is good hosting and the second one is good and timely followup. So what does good hosting means? We want our guests, our first timer to feel noticed, welcome and help. Good hosting makes a huge difference. And we

[11:01]
deliberately use the word hosting not greeting or welcoming because we believe that uh name of as shapes a vision and vision shapes behavior. You know a greeter is someone who says hello at the door. A host is someone who takes responsibility for the whole journey of our guest experience. So imagine you're hosting a dinner at your home. You know you don't just open the door and say hello and leave people to figure it out, right? You show them around. You might do a bear house tour. You introduce them to your other friends. You keep an eye

[11:32]
on them. You make sure that they know leaving that they are welcome. And that's the posture we want our hosts uh to do towards our guests before, during, and after the service. So before the service, yes, of course, it involves greeting them at the door, orienting newcomers, showing them where the toilets are, handing out uh a welcome pack. in our case maybe something you would give uh directing families to the nextG program etc. So that's before and then during the service we love

[12:03]
sometimes we might not be able to do that but wouldn't it be great if a newcomer is always sitting next to someone else. So our host look out for newcomers either sit next to them or find a members who connect them with and sit next to them and then after the service we want to be able to have our hosts finding these new people again in the cafe you know and introduce ourselves continue the conversation answer any questions and name the next step for them. Now, one of my best opening questions when we've introduced ourselves is to uh get our host to ask,

[12:36]
is church something new to you? Because I think these questions carries no assumption. You know, is church something new to you? Oh, yeah. You know, I've never been to a church and there you go. You know where this person is in their faith journey? Or maybe someone would say, "Oh, I just moved into this area. You know, I've been going to church for a while." Oh, you know, they're looking for a new spiritual home. This is a great question I think to help us know where they are along on that journey and it shapes how we might be able to follow them up better. So good hosting of course

[13:07]
extends beyond our host teams. Now when members can spot a newcomer in the crowd for example maybe they're holding a newcomers pack or redeeming a free gift voucher drink voucher then they are also there to take responsibility. uh once they know who are new you know that's an invitation for all our church members to go and initiate conversation and that's when hosting becomes a culture rather than a roster. Secondly another thing to help people to bridge that uh bridge one is that there

[13:40]
is real power in prompt timely personal follow-up. Now at great city someone is dedicated to follow up first thing Monday morning. Uh, I would think never later than Tuesday, midday because we really want to catch people when their Sunday experience is still fresh and hopefully they haven't made plans yet for the next Sunday so that they can come back. Uh, a useful framework I think what I would define as good followup involves u I have in my acronym since we are at rich conference I use

[14:11]
the word rich just to make sure I confuses everyone more. Um, but what does that mean? Like I want them to know that they can recognize uh we recognize their visit. Okay, R stands for recognize their visit. We want to acknowledge it warmly. Glad that you were with us. We want to encourage a return. So if there's something special happening or if you're in the middle of a sermon series, we name that so that they know they can what they're returning to. We want to advance the pathway. So let them know what is a clear next step for them and connect

[14:43]
them personally. I offer, you know, we offer in our welcome uh contact that we will have someone sit next to them when they return. And sometimes people do come back to me and say, "Oh, yeah, I'm going to try another service and we'll make sure someone meet them." And then lastly, H is to hand them a contact. You know, rather than sending this welcome message from a generic inbox, you know, it it comes in Waterloo comes from me at Rockdale. It comes from a membership rep. you know, someone that they can contact and know that, oh, if I've got questions, this is the person I can ask.

[15:15]
Now, of course, you need to have a system to capture your first-time guests contact data in order to follow up. And whether you send an email or you you you call them, whatever that might be, it will look different in different churches. The size and the setup of your church will be different, but you definitely need something to know who they are. Otherwise, how can you help them cross the bridge if you don't even know that they're on it? And so you need a clear consistent system uh to capture that data so you can follow up. So recap to help someone cross that first bridge.

[15:47]
Um we would like to do that with good hosting and good timely follow-up. So what about bridge two? So someone has returned from second time. How can we help them and encourage them to keep coming more regularly? Again a bundle of reason. Many of them are out of the in community director's control. And it's also worth mentioning that there will always be more firsttime guests than second time guests. The guest the gap itself is just normal. So don't be discouraged by it. But that

[16:20]
said, we do can do something to help people to keep coming. And one of the powerful thing at this stage I think is recognition. You know, if someone comes back and someone remembers their name, that really communicates something. It means that we've noticed you and we value you and we're glad that you're back. And the other key move is to prioritize the unconnected. Now, if someone comes to your church, uh they arrive already knowing people there,

[16:50]
then those relationship will help carry the connection work, right? But if someone walks in knowing nobody and they come back again, you know, we want to prioritize getting to know them. So usually that's the point when our host will go ah introduce a staff member or other people regularly going attending that service so that the newcomers can have more connections because more connections means more likelihood for them to come back. So let's move on to bridge three. What calls people into

[17:21]
ownership and belonging? Now how can we help someone from regularly attending there at our church to become a member with us? This is the bridge we think that sometimes some churches might underthink it. You know, people can attend for months, even years without ever being clearly invited into membership. You know, they come, they enjoy the music, they love the preaching, they know a few people, but they're never really functioning as a member, more like a consumer. And often

[17:52]
that's because no one actually has ever clearly said, "Hey, here's what's it means to belong to this church." And we'll love to invite you into that. And that's why we believe that a membership moment matters. It doesn't need to look the same. You know, our church, we have a variety of churches represented here. It can be a formal cost. This is what we do. Um it can be a pizza night. It can be at some a meal uh at a staff's home. It can be a series of one-on-one conversation uh over coffee. The form

[18:22]
itself is flexible, but the function isn't because without a deliberate membership moment, we're just building on assumptions. You know, we're just assuming that people know what belonging to a church means. But with a membership moment, you're building on share understanding. And so, by way of example, we have something called onboard. Tim and I at Waterlue, we run it once a month. uh two hours on a Sunday afternoon. We invite every per uh everyone who is new who identify themselves as a follower of Christ to come along and that's where we will

[18:54]
cover our uh vision, our mission, our distinctive, our membership expectations. So that's what we do and at Rockdale it's the same content and our campus pastor uh hosts onboard once a term at his home and after on board we invite people to actually make a conscious decision in becoming members at Grac City. So it's an opt-in thing. You know, you coming to onboard doesn't mean uh you're in. You need to tell me that you want to become a member. And so I think that this gives us a moment

[19:24]
where we say very warmly but clearly that this is who we are as a church. You know, this is what we believe. This is what we're seeking to do and this is what we believe the Bible calls members here to do. And here is where how you can belong. And if you never define belonging, people would define it for themselves. Some will treat church like a cinema. You know, they come, they consume, they leave. Some will treat it like a spiritual gym. You know, they attend when it suits them. Some will

[19:56]
will look at it like a a friendship network, you know. So, they'll be there as long as their social needs are met. But the New Testament in in God's word, it gives us a much richer and a way better picture. The church is the body of Christ. We are a household of God. We are a family. And that's why we think a membership moment is so important and it helps people move from mere attending to truly belonging. And so when it comes to the bridges help us as a model and when

[20:26]
it comes to the matrix, how how can we measure ownership and belonging? Well, numbers don't tell the whole story, but they do reveal if our systems are breaking down. And so, think of matrix as a scoreboard. Uh, not a scoreboard, but as dashboard lights. Uh, so what how can we measure belonging? Uh, and I think there are at least three things you can track. You know, how many first-time visitors do you get in your church? Uh, how many

[20:59]
people return? you know, what's your guest return rate and what's your integration ratio? How many people, you know, change transition from being first time here into becoming members of your church? And these are the metrics that can help you to see where are people dropping off. You know, if the visitors are not returning, look at bridge one. You know, if they're returning but they're not attending regularly, try to think about bridge two. Are they attending but never committing? That's a bridge three question. And so I hope

[21:31]
this has been helpful to help you think a bit more about connections. And just to I'm sure there's a lot of wisdom in the room as well. And so we want to give you some time, three minutes, turn to someone next to you, near you uh to to have a quick share about which bridge do you think is the weakest in your church right now and what's one thing you could do differently. So go. Three minutes starts now. So, I've just done connection. Now,

[22:02]
we're doing community or as we're calling it today, fellowship. This idea that we're woven together. Uh, and we're up to this second little section in our diagram. So, what are we trying to achieve? What's the outcome? Well, uh, fellowship is not just about Christian social activity. Uh, it's not just about conversations and coffee, right? that that's probably often what we think of when we have, you know, fellowship morning tea. It's, you know, it's people talking together. Like, yes, that's part of it, but what we're really trying to capture is a sense of the common life

[22:34]
that we share together because we share in Christ. And so, the New Testament says that fellowship begins with our fellowship with God. And so, uh, through faith in Christ by the spirit, we're brought into communion, uh, with the father and the son and therefore into communion with one another. And so, Acts 2:42 is fascinating, right? Uh, the Greek word is coinonia. And you'd know the passage, the apostles, the holy spirit comes and then the church devotes

[23:05]
themselves to a range of things. What is it? They devote themselves not just the apostles teaching, not just the breaking of bread, not just prayer, but also coinonia. They devote themselves to fellowship. Now, what does that mean? Does that mean they devote themselves to coffee and conversation? No. What does it mean? Well, I mean, it's tricky in some ways. It it's this communal life. It's their shared life together. They're learning together, praying together, eating together, bearing burdens together, even sharing possessions with those in need. You know, the word, it's

[23:37]
kind of the sharing of one another with one another. And so it's more than just warmth of relationships or friendship or feeling like I belong here. As as important as all of those things are, it's this sense of the common life that we share together as Christ's body. Uh where believers share spiritual encouragement, gospel responsibility, practical care. So you say, okay, what what what would that look like? Well, uh, imagine a church where people don't

[24:08]
just treat it as an event I attend, but this is a gospel-shaped community that I belong to. This the these are my people. We share in Christ together. And so, when I come on Sundays, I don't want to just attend an event and then leave. These are my people. So, I want to hang around and uh hear how they're going and share stories and be vulnerable with them. Outside of Sundays, I want to open my home. I want to open my life. I want to uh if someone is in need, I want to step in. My natural reflex should be to step in and and care for them if I can.

[24:39]
If someone's in need, I want to provide for them. Again, it's a church that's not just warm and relational. We're not just friendly. We are helping one another uh follow Jesus. And what framework helps us lead it? Well, here here's where it gets tricky. And even as I've described what fellowship is, perhaps you're already picking up the tension, uh, fellowship isn't really something you can program directly. So, you can run an event, you

[25:12]
can organize groups, you can create rosters, but you can't manufacture genuine warmth, spiritual communion, mutual responsibility. And so I think it's it's helpful to think of fellowship more like a culture that you're trying to cultivate than a program that you're trying to control. So of all of these three areas, I think probably fellowship or community as we've often called it is more of a culture piece. Uh hopefully that's just

[25:42]
which means it will remain a little bit vague. I guess I'm I'm naming it because I feel it. Uh if you know a way to not make it vague, feel free to let me know. But I've always struggled with this one a little bit. So I guess I'm naming what I think which is that it's more culture and vibe than here's a clear program to run. Uh so for example, we often think okay where does community get experienced or fellowship? Often our answer becomes oh it's in small groups. So we got to get everyone in a small group. And yes small groups are key. You

[26:13]
know we even call our small groups community groups because we want people to enjoy and experience that fellowship together. But if fellowship is this shared life of God's people in Christ, then what we actually want is a is a range of environments where that shared life can be expressed at different levels of depth and in slightly different ways. And so uh I have found it helpful as I've tried to get my head around this area uh to think of a relational ecosystem. And so uh this

[26:45]
this diagram uh is borrowing from a field of study called proxmics which kind of helps remind us that different sized relational contexts are better suited to different kinds of interaction connection and depth than others. And so if I just uh work through this, you've got the public context, typically groups of 100 plus. The social context 20 to 70. Uh personal context 4 to 12. Transparent context 2 to 4. So

[27:18]
that's that's just a field of study. Proxmics that that's that stuff. But in terms of how it connects into or overlays church life, where it's helpful to think is go, oh well, you know, in church, our public gatherings kind of fit that public context. And so these become a great opportunity for a shared sense of identity. And so the preaching, the prayers, uh we sing the same truths. Uh and we we remember that we belong to something beyond ourselves, even beyond often, you know, the specific

[27:48]
congregation. It's like for us it's like not just I belong to 9:00 a.m. at Wateroo. It's no we're part of a larger thing. We're uh Grace City Church for example. Then you have social spaces. Uh so I think these are typically underestimated in our churches. So whether it's morning tea or dinners or congregational barbecues, ministry events, these are where strangers become familiar with one another. I think it's often um where the newcomer decides is this going to be a

[28:20]
place that I really want to stick around. So there's overlap with what we're talking about here with what Diana was just sharing. You know, I might come and really I love the service, but it's after church in that social context so to speak where I'm starting to get a sense of could I belong here? Are these the kind of people who are going to welcome me and make space for me? Uh then you have the personal context. Uh in most churches these will correspond to small groups and they provide the context in which people can be genuinely

[28:51]
known. I often talk about these as you know the people in your small group are the one anothers that the scriptures call you to one another. You know 59 one another commands. It's like who am I supposed to you know love one another? And well the people in my small group become the people that I can love that I can teach rebuke uh bear the burdens of be you know as well as everyone else but you know I can do it with them first. Um and lastly you have the transparent

[29:22]
relationships uh like close friendships, prayer partners, discipling relationships that sort of thing. Now, not every uh relationship in the church is going to be like that. But in a healthy church, I think people ought to have one or two people that they can be open, transparent with. We ought to be encouraging that. Now, at the end of the day, you look at all this, you go scratching your head, what am I supposed to get out of this? I think the key insight is just to recognize that healthy fellowship is not found at one

[29:53]
layer but across the whole ecosystem of these different contexts. Uh we don't just want people attending a Sunday. We don't just want people joining a group. uh we want people ideally sharing life in Christ across multiple relational environments, different levels of depth because I think that's how fellowship becomes a culture rather than a program. But at this point you might be saying well you know that's all well and good Tim but I put my hand up when you said

[30:23]
that I lead the in community space and at least in my church that means I don't actually run. I don't control what happens on the Sunday. I don't control the small groups. I don't control the ministry teams. Uh so how can I contribute to all of these different areas? Well, I think this is where it's important to understand if you are so in our case it's Diana running this area. A lot of this is leadership by the second chair. It's getting alongside those who do oversee

[30:54]
these areas and getting in their ear and putting this on their agenda and saying, "Hey, are you thinking about this?" So for example, you know the platform ministry, if you're leading this area, I want to say get alongside whoever's controlling what happens in the platform and being encouraging them to shape, you know, shape the language with stories and uh so use whatever influence you have to shape the language, get stories out there uh and share expectations from the front. And so from what the

[31:25]
preachers say, the MC's, cast a vision for our shared life together. You know, I always say a church is not just a comm an event you attend, it's a community that you belong to. Uh try and get stories, you know, in the interview segments. Uh here's people who are caring for one another. Hey, here's someone who who was welcomed really effectively. Hey, here's someone who's opened their home. And just try and cast a vision for it from the from the front. Uh in terms of your small groups, again, even if you don't run the small group

[31:56]
ministry, you can get alongside the person who does and say, "Hey, are our groups like just pure Bible study groups where that's all we're doing or is there also this common shared life together? And are there things that we can do to help facilitate that?" Even ministry teams, I think ministry teams are over often overlooked as fellowship environments. Uh when they're run poorly, they're just, you know, rosters. um when they're run well, they can become communities of gospel partnership. And so don't think of fellowship only ever happens when we're

[32:28]
in a circle, you know, sharing together. Uh part of fellowship is partnering in the work together side by side, you know, shoulderto-shoulder. We're in the work, you know, that's part of fellowship. We're doing we're sharing the ministry together. So there's a handful of things you don't control, but you can influence. However, uh probably you will have some things that you can control or can have slightly more direct influence over. Uh in our context, Diana is really responsible for helping us become the

[32:58]
kind of church that we say oozes hospitality. We want to be a church that oozes hospitality. And I think this has benefits both in the connection space, which Diana has just talked about, but also in the fellowship space, right? you know, connection. People are coming in. We want to be hospitable to them, but also we want to be the kind of place where people um want to hang around, want to enjoy. And so, just three quick things to touch on that you might want to pay attention to. Uh your facilities. So,

[33:30]
think about your facilities. There'll be some things you can't control about them, but there'll be other things that you can. And so, don't just ask, "Is our facility clean and tidy?" Hopefully, it is. But the deeper question is, is this a place where people want to come and spend time before and after the service? Is it warm and welcoming? Is it inviting? Right? Some places are cold, sterile, and awkward. And if it is, if that's your context, you know, you can't change the building. Like, you can't move a wall from here to here, or at least you can, but it's going to be

[34:00]
expensive. But are there things you can do to your space just to make it nicer, to make it more warm, more welcoming? So concretely uh we have two locations. Waterloo uh Waterlue these days is very easy because it was purpose-built. So it feels like you walk into a cafe. It it it's a nice space. But we started in a film school and then we went to a movie theater. They were much more difficult. But uh we also our Rockdale campus meets in a more

[34:32]
traditional church building with a youth hall. It's a different environment. And so we've actually had to work a lot harder to think, gee, how how can we make this space not feel cold and dreary? And so paying attention to lighting, like it's a bit of a pain, but every week we set up kind of ambient lights if you like. Um uh e even something even something as small as tablecloths over the plastic tables buying you know IKEA plants small

[35:05]
things that probably don't make you you don't think it makes a huge difference but it just you're trying to what can we do here that says hey you know we love hang around this is a place you want to hang around in. Um so that's uh your facilities, your food. Uh food for us has always played a major part. Uh so we have uh we have morning tea after 9:00 and 11:00 and dinner after 4:00 and 6:00 uh

[35:35]
every single week. Um so it's always played a major part for us. But we've also been very clear from the beginning. We we tell our people we're not just interested in feeding you, right? That's not why we do food and coffee. It's not why we do dinner. Uh you can go and buy your own food somewhere else if that was what it was about. We're trying to create an environment where people can connect with others and grow in fellowship together. So food's not the goal. Fellowship is the goal. But food, at least for us, your context might be very different. But in our context, we

[36:06]
found food is a thing that people congregate around, they gather around, they stay around for. And so if we can provide it, it creates an environment where that fellowship can start to blossom and grow. Um now because at 9:00 and 11:00 we don't do dinner. So it's interesting the experience of our congregations, our congregational life feels different. 6:00 is beautiful because they have dinner

[36:37]
every week. Um 11:00 however uh well nine o'clock you know we've often got a bunch of people with kids they you know they're tired so they'll hang around but they'll come and they'll leave whereas the 11:00 that was we noticed that was the congregation that was the most consumeristic in terms of the experience they weren't hanging around and so what we've started doing is monthly lunches so we we couldn't put on a lunch every 11:00 we just didn't have the resource

[37:07]
so we started doing monthly lunches. That helped a little bit. But then uh Diana's genius, we've only run it once, but it was very effective. So, we'll run it again, was we thought, well, let's again, we're still not quite feeling like there's the connection. Partly we have a quite a big portion of uni students that come to our 11 and they seem to be quite clicky. They all connect with one another, but they don't connect with these groups. And so, Diana's genius was to we recently ran something called table for eight, which was

[37:38]
We had a whole bunch of people put their hand up and say, "I'd love to host people in my house." And then a bunch of other people say, "I'd like to go to someone's house." And then we basically matchmade and had a whole series on this one Sunday after church of table for eight lunches. I went to one, a bunch of us went to them and unanimously everyone said, "Yeah, that was awesome." All of a sudden, I know this person. Now again just knowing someone doesn't immediately create fellowship but in that particular congregation we notice something was not

[38:09]
quite working and so that I think has gone away towards just creating context in which the fellowship can more naturally emerge. Uh lastly just think about your events. You know, most churches will already be running a whole range of events, but think, are there ways that we can leverage these events more effectively for fellowship purposes? And so, a Grace City, some of the events that we've run just historically are weekend away. For us, weekend away is a a key time to just

[38:40]
lean into the fact particularly now we're across two campuses to say, "Hey, we're one church, four services, two locations. Let's come together and uh experience. We're part of a shared thing. We're on a shared vision to our area and our city. We share a common mission under Christ. Uh we also have this thing called summer nights which for us is just three nights in January when our community groups typically shut down. Again, just trying to create spaces where people can come gather together. Um happy to talk more about

[39:11]
that. Uh there's also Saturday barbecue. So Rockdale was noticing, hey, we're still not quite feeling like people are connecting. What can we do? So they've started doing um you know once a quarter, let's do a barbecue on a Saturday in a local park. Let's invite people to come along. Again, the barbecue is not the goal. The goal is fellowship, but thinking are there certain events that we can either leverage if they already exist or begin in order to achieve that that goal. So context where people move from

[39:42]
recognition to relationship, relationship to affection, affection to genuine shared life in Christ. How do you measure it? Well, I think again because I've said from the beginning, it's more vibe and culture. Uh it's unlikely in many ways for this to show up on a dashboard, but the kind of things I think you you could pay attention to are things like uh ecosystem engagement. So, how many people are just coming to

[40:12]
Sundays? How many people are coming to Sundays and they're in a small group? How many people are in a small group? Come to Sundays and on a ministry team. That might give you some indication of how many people are enjoying some of the the range of the different layers of relationship if you like. Uh other things like social participation. Now, again, we don't get a timer and count how long the people stay for after church, but we just notice it. you know, we're looking for it and we noticed at 11, oh, people are people are leaving really quickly. Feels

[40:44]
like something is missing. And so that hence we've done the table parade and things like that. And then lastly, how many people are you losing out the back door? Uh cuz if if you don't have a real sense of fellowship people are, you know, you will find that the back door just gets larger and larger. People might come, they might join, but they don't ever feel quite like they belong, like they're woven into this community, and so they'll bleed out the back door. Uh, that's all from me on that

[41:14]
discussion question for a moment. Which relational layer is strongest in your church, and which do you think is most neglected? I'll give you a couple of minutes, and then Diana, we'll be back up. >> All right, let's come back together. Awesome. So the third component under in community um we want to focus a little bit of care you know how can we wisely help the

[41:45]
people that we are charged to take care of you know and care uh what's the outcome we're trying to achieve you know care is about our church members being spiritually and practically supported so that they can persevere and mature in Christ especially in seasons of need care in the local church is not just crisis response and it's not just the pastor's job. It's it's an ordinary ways where the body of Christ hold its members as they keep going in faith,

[42:15]
hope, and love. And a quick note of language, I'm going to be using Christian care rather than pastoral care because sometimes when people hear pastoral care, they think that it subtly imply that it's the pastor's job. And I'm sure everyone's sitting here thinking like, nah, of course not. So in a moment we'll we'll we'll see a little bit more about how much that's so not true. But first let's begin with what the scripture says about care. Now theologically we believe care begins with Christ. You know he is our great

[42:46]
shepherd. He lays down his life for us as his sheep. And God has care for us in Christ. He has loved us, carried our burden, comforted in comforted us in weakness and brought us safely into his flock. And as those who have received that care, we are called to extend that to one another. You know, we are charged to bear each other's burden. You know, it's not a suggestion in Galatians 6. It is a command. It assumes that burden

[43:16]
exists and that we won't leave people uh to carry them alone. 1 Thessalonians 5:14 tells us to encourage the fain-hearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone. That's not an elite calling, you know, for the especially gifted. It's a calling for every member of the church. And so care is is the whole body bearing burdens under Christ the good shepherd with appropriate support for different levels of need. So what does it look like? you

[43:48]
know, zooming into our churches. Imagine a church where people are noticed, when they're absent, when they're grieving, when they're in need, and members don't assume that someone else is going to handle it. They move towards one another in love. But it's also a church where care is wise. Not every need lands on the pastors or the staff. Not every struggle is handled by an untrained friend. You know, people know when to pray, when to bring a meal, when to

[44:18]
speak scripture, when to involve a leader, and when to refer to professional help. That's the culture we want to cultivate. You know, people are careful, but then also the caregivers are not crushed. Then there are two errors I think we must avoid in the area of we think about care. Um first obviously care is the staff's job. All right. Now it might happen in some churches that you know staff team is brilliant in holding

[44:50]
everyone's need. We are sure that it will work for a while but over time it will create passive members and exhausted leaders. Care becomes centralized and reactive and unsustainable. It will be at some point. So that's the first error. The second error is that care is organic. Don't structure it. You know, this sounds super spiritual. You know, we want people to care naturally, not mechanically. But then as our churches grow, pure organic care means some

[45:21]
people are beautifully careful if they're well connected. And then there are going to be some people who are just completely missed. You know, people people fall through the cracks. And so we need both culture and structure um so that care can become a natural reflex of a gospel share community. And as an in community person I think our role is to make sure that we are cultivating that culture and to ensure that there are frameworks and systems that make faithful care more likely.

[45:51]
So we're talking about care but what does it actually involve? So I think that it there are at least six Ps to it. It's just helpful for us to to look at it that way like at least six components. The proclamation of God's word. So word God's word and encouraging each other with scripture, truth and gospel promises. You know God's word when shared sensitively and at the right time help peoples to keep trusting Jesus through hardship. But the second P is prayerfulness. You

[46:21]
know bringing one another uh before the Lord consistently and specifically. You know, when we pray for someone, we we're basically demonstrating that, you know, we have a great shepherd who cares for this person first and foremost. So, being prayerful. Uh and then it moves to, you know, something about people. So, the third one is pastoral oversight, checking in on someone, noticing absence, asking some maybe even harder questions, you know, where necessary, and maybe correcting and even rebuking.

[46:53]
You know this require wisdoms and appropriate authority but pastoral oversight is definitely a key component of care. Then the fourth one is presence. The ministry of time you know simply showing up listening weeping sitting with someone in hardship. You know it's easy to underestimate but it's often deeply powerful. The f the fifth piece is usually what people think of pastoral care or care right practicalities. the meals, the

[47:24]
transport, child care, financial support, hospital visits, helps with maybe funeral, major life transitions. This is where love becomes very practical and visible. And then the last P is professional referral. You know, we need to know our limits. Some situation requires trained professionals and specialists uh to to care for our people better. You know, referring someone is not a failure of Christian care. is often is an expression of it.

[47:55]
Why why is it important to actually have a concept of what is involved in care when we talking about care? Um it's because we it we're bound not to be able to offer all these Ps all at one time by one person, right? Like not every caregiver can address all of them. So by understanding what the Ps are, it gives us clarity which of these Ps we can realistically offer you know at a particular level at a particular capacity which in turn hopefully can

[48:27]
make care more sustainable. So now let's ask the question what framework help us lead good care in our church. Now I believe that every church needs to have a care framework. Now I can already see some of you is like trying to figure out like don't worry it's on your hand now. It's it's actually really simple. It looks complicated. That's how I want like you to think and that's why I want my boss to think that I'm doing a good job. But it's so simple. Now the framework help us care for our people and ensure that

[48:59]
uh a need receives the right support from the right caregiver at the right level. Think of a hospital. Okay. So a GP doesn't perform open heart surgery. you hope they don't uh a cardiac surgeon doesn't take your temperature either, you know, but every level matters and every level has a distinct role. So from a care receiver perspective, a care framework provide at least three things. Um when they're receiving care, the first thing is we can ensure that they are receiving the right sized care, you know, so that their needs are not

[49:30]
undermet or over escalated. Uh secondly, they can have honest expectations uh realistic expectations about what the church can or cannot offer because sometimes without that it often leads to disappointments, frustrations and and even bitterness in some some of our church members. Thirdly, it gives us a clear pathway. A care receiver should know who to turn to for what type of care. And then from a caregiver perspective, it provides some similar gut rails. you know it give us a clear scope. So no one is overfunctioning that

[50:01]
will leads to burnout nor underfunctioning that you know we're not being faithful uh in caring for one another and it also secondly give us a realistic capacity so that care remains sustainable and effective over time. So care the needs will always be there right our resources and time are always limited and so the care framework help us to be wise and hold this tension closely so what what is this you know it looks complicated it's so simple um it's

[50:31]
basically two axis on the one hand horizontally you can see um the care receiver placed on top so people who receive care widens from one person on the left to a few people to a group like some of them and to all and then vertically you see that they are the caregiver you know so care deepens from every member at a foundational level up on the top all the way down you know through a group leader for our area leader our care team and our staff and

[51:02]
obviously professional as well. So at every level we are hoping that our caregivers can practice three movements. Recognize you know notice what's happening maybe absence you know practical need a spiritual concern recognize respond you know respond to those need at a particular appropriate level maybe pray check in bring a meal open scripture arrange some practical help and then thirdly refer you know always keep in mind when is a good time to pass on the baton maybe to a group

[51:34]
leader to a care coordinator a staff member or counselor a specialist you know as the care as the needs become more complex maybe more confidential intensive it will move down hopefully uh further down into the skilled caregiver uh asex now every not every church uh will need to will have every level organized and that's fine I mean I'm speaking uh even as for us you know we don't necessarily have the care team all

[52:05]
set up and trained that's where we're at you know this is where we're aiming for but you know in smaller church you have one very lovely, capable volunteer who's very gifted and you know he or she is functioning on multiple level or maybe that person is actually you that you are the one who put your names in like a lot of these different levels but the framework is a good place to start because over time the goal is that through training and equipping you'll be able to write someone's name in one of

[52:36]
these boxes and replace yourself. So care how can we measure care if fellowship is hard to measure like care care is another ball game I think you know it is so hard to measure but then there are ways we can think of to you know something that's worth tracking uh a few things to ensure that people are being noticed uh supported and and that escalation happens appropriately. So for example uh absence followup you know do you know who hasn't been at church for a few weeks or at groups for a few weeks

[53:08]
uh escalation and referral you know are are complex needs being handled by the right people at the right level and then maybe equipping and training you know how many leaders have been trained in basic Christian care. So my invitation for you now is turn to the person next to you and discuss this. you know, where does care currently land in your church? You know, is it on your pastors, on a few who are caring for people, maybe on your group leaders, or

[53:38]
maybe no one in particular. So, have a think about where cares land and maybe follow up with what is one thing you think you can do differently to ensure that people are supported and caregivers are not overburdened. So, go All right, I'll call you back. So those are our three if you like subpurposes connection, fellowship and care. I want

[54:10]
to finish by helping think about what do these look like in different size dynamics of churches. Uh and then practically what would you do walking away from today? So that's what I want to do now. Um, I think it's worth acknowledging that churches of different size are they may look different and how it lands might look different, but we're ultimately trying to achieve the same purposes, the same outcomes. We all want our communities to be places where people

[54:40]
are welcomed in, whether there's a small church or a large church. We want communities where people are woven together in fellowship. And we want places where people are wisely cared for. But again, what you need to build to achieve those outcomes is going to look different depending on the size of your context. And so, uh, just working through this really, small churches have a bunch of strengths, right? As the strength of a small church is often visibility. So, new person walks in, everyone knows they're new, which means

[55:11]
we can go and overwhelm them. I mean, go and welcome them. When someone's absent, you often notice. when someone's struggling against often the community responds you know it it reflexes that's a gift but small churches you know the weakness on the other hand is often assumptions you know the assumption is because people are familiar they're actually known uh because the church feels warm to us on the inside it feels warm to the outsider not always or because uh care is happening informally that everyone

[55:43]
therefore is being cared for again not often the case and so small churches they don't necessarily need more programs. I think probably what they need is clearer ownership. Uh who is actually responsible for what? Particularly if your church is wanting to move from small to medium. I think uh in the connection space, you want to be asking the question, who notices the newcomer? Who's responsible for following them up? Who's going to invite them into belonging? In the fellowship space, are people genuinely sharing life in Christ or are they actually just

[56:13]
familiar with one another? You know, are we actually just kind of a a slightly inbred super, you know, what we actually share in common is a long history, you know, uh is it fleshy community or is it spiritual community or or care? Who's responsible for following up needs? Uh and when do we need to escalate it beyond informal care? So, small churches, medium-sized churches face a different challenge. On the one hand, you're too large for

[56:44]
everyone to know everyone. On the other hand, uh you're still small enough to assume that relationships and care will happen organically. This is where I think people will fall through the cracks. And so, a newcomer can attend for a bunch of weeks and still not be known. Well, they're not known because you didn't realize that they were new. Uh but you still think you should know everyone, but you don't. Uh or a regular attender can drift while no one's noticing. uh group leaders can carry everything on their own because you haven't been trained in recognize,

[57:15]
respond, refer. You don't have the system set up to escalate yet and so people get overwhelmed and burdened. I I think medium-sized churches need light scaffold not light scaffolding and not complicated systems again like that care structure that Diana just set up. I think it was it I was just saying I find it so helpful. So the I find the P's helpful cuz I have felt guilty for nearly 11 years about our care structures and going, "Oh, I don't feel like we care for people well enough."

[57:46]
When someone says, "How do you care for people?" I'm like, "Oh, we don't have a care team. I don't think we care for people." Actually, no, we care for people through preaching. We care for people through prayer. We care for people through all the other P's. Um, so that's helpful. And then that framework is helpful as well, just to go, "Oh, okay. We don't have a care team yet. I mean we have an informal one but there's actually a whole lot of care that's happening in these other places and you know let's let's pick one box what can we do to more effectively

[58:17]
upskill people in that space and so I I think um medium churches just it's helpful uh just a bit of light scaffolding just stuff to make love more reliable um and particularly if you want to move from medium to large I think by the time you're large you do need it and so In the connection space, you need a host team, connection cards or some version of achieving that simple followup, regular membership moment. Uh in fellowship, you know, clear small groupoup pathways, good post service,

[58:49]
hospitality, ministry teams that function as communities uh in care. You want to start training your group leaders, care coordinator, stuff like that. uh in the larger church space, I think the larger a church is, uh the dangers become anonymity and overload. Uh so people can attend for months, maybe even years, and nobody knows them again because you're just lost in the crowd. That's the challenge. New newcomers disappear into the crowd. And I think care needs become I think larger churches. It's a combination of there's

[59:21]
more people so there's more needs. And also I do think there's something about larger churches often though and though not always they'll attract more complex cases as well. And so if you don't have proper care systems struct set up uh it all just filters into a couple of one or two people who can end up getting massively overloaded. And so larger churches need more deliberate systems uh things like connections. So trained host, reliable data capture, follow-up, regular membership pathways, someone

[59:52]
tracking the newcomer journey in the fellowship space. Again, just multiple relational environments, Sunday gatherings, post service, hospitality, small group ministry team, meals, um maybe this is when you start thinking if you don't have it already, men's and women, women's ministries, just different, you know, cross- segments of the congregations, uh cared again, layered care. I think that's when Diana's diagram starts to become really helpful. So that's just recognizing, okay,

[1:00:22]
depending on where you're at, you don't necessarily need everything, but maybe it's helpful to to consider what you might need. Um, as we finish, I think the temptation perhaps depending on where your church is at, is to hear all of this and go, "Okay, we got to go home and overhaul overhaul everything." Uh let me encourage you not to do that. Uh down the bottom, choose one outcome, name one bottleneck, take one step. That that would be my recommendation for you

[1:00:53]
today. Um so choose one outcome, right? Which of these three outcomes is most pressing an issue for your church right now? Is it connection? People are failing to be welcomed in. Is it fellowship? you know, people are attending but you just uh feels like they're not quite woven together in a common life. Is it care? You know, people are struggling without being wisely held. Choose one, not all three. Within that, name the bottleneck. And

[1:01:24]
so, get specific about where things are breaking down. So, for connection, you know, is it bridge one or bridge two or bridge three? uh if you've gone with fellowship, you know, is it the public, social, personal or transparent layer where you're feeling like things are are not quite humming or if you choose care, you know, is it recognizing needs that's broken? Is it responding appropriately? Is it referring wisely? Just pick one of them. Notice where's the bottleneck? And then step three, just take one next step. Not a whole new ministry, just one

[1:01:56]
thing that you could do in the next three months. Uh, so is it train your hosts in how to think like hosts, not greeters? Maybe that's what you walk away with today. Maybe it's build a simple follow-up process for firsttime guests. Maybe it's clarify your membership moment. Do we have one of those? Do we invite people into belonging in a kind of a is there a moment where we do that? Uh, is it improve your post service hospitality? Is it train your small group leaders to cultivate fellowship, not just run Bible

[1:02:27]
studies? Is it uh create a simple follow-up method for people who are absent from church? You know, what are the steps we take if someone's been away for 3 weeks, four weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks? What are the steps we take? Uh is it to clarify when group leaders should escalate their care needs? Again, the the aim is not to build a perfect system, just to take one next faithful step. give you a couple minutes just to chat about that again with those around you and then I think we're going to open up for some questions.

[1:03:04]
All right, we'll call you back in. As I mentioned, we have about at least 15 minutes for questions now. So, uh we're happy to, as Diana said a moment ago, there Q&A time. There might be lots of Q's. I don't know how many A's, but uh we're happy to give a crack. Um so go for it. And Sheridan's coming around with the microphone. You're out the back. >> Um you mentioned that you do dinners every week. Um where does the money come for that? Like just practically like do

[1:03:35]
you budget it as a church. Do you make people pay the full cost? Do you discount it? Like what's Yeah. How does that work? >> So we do make people pay. At the moment it's at $7 for dinner. Uh we we say that our budget for the team is $300 for 100 people. So because like other costs involved as well and so it's been feasible and it's really like not pies or anything like it is really good meals. Agree?

[1:04:06]
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like it smells amazing. >> It's it's it's extraordinary. >> Yeah. So it's achievable but we do not uh ask people to pay and we have two seller machines and so uh the team will go and and and they people pay as they come and collect their food. >> So can I just double check you give people $300 budget for 100 people? >> Yes. >> And we charge them seven. >> Great. [laughter] That's awesome. >> No because like all the plates and other things and there are also hidden cost as well. So I usually, you know, we will

[1:04:37]
order like >> 50 kilos of rice and that's not budgeted for the the chef and so like there are other costs but no we're not you're not really making that much of money out of me. >> Cool. All right. >> Hi, thanks for everything you shared. Um just a question about your welcoming your connection when there are people around who um uh first timers they're coming a second time they're becoming regulars. um but you've invited them to welcome lunches to um your onboarding

[1:05:10]
course and they're not wanting to come along. Um do you have tips what you do with newcomers like that? What do we do? We still welcome them like I think some people just takes time you know like so I think you know sometimes they might not be willing to come to on board. Maybe you know we just have to explain a bit more or profile it even better through visual to like to to show that it's not a scary thing you know like maybe that is the case but sometimes people just come h I already have pictures in my mind there are people who

[1:05:41]
just come regularly and they never come to on board but I keep inviting them uh so there we use planning center as a trash management system and I I know a way how I can um draw a list to invite people and actually to my surprise even though they never comes Some sometimes they reply and say thanks for inviting even though they never come. So they're getting my message and I'll just keep inviting until they tell me not to or they stop coming. >> So I've we've probably got the same family in mind. There's one family

[1:06:11]
that's been at church for like 5 [snorts] years and they come and they go, you know, it's like can anyone talk to them? So they they just have no interest in joining. There are others where the success story is it might have taken 24 months before they've joined us but they have joined us and so I was even speaking to a lady on Sunday say how long you been coming along oh a few years I was like oh awkward um this is like it's okay I've um you know but I'm now in a group it took me a while to commit so you know >> yeah and sometimes it's like really

[1:06:42]
depends because say we have a lot of uni students uh some of them are over a lot of them are overseas students so they actually don't have clarity about their visa. If they come to our church and they're say almost approaching the end of their study, uh sometimes it becomes a hurdle, an obstacle for them to join on board because they feel like well I don't even know I'm I'm going to be in in Sydney for you know beyond 6 months. Uh but we do have success stories where you know people just like just come along you know like just come get involved. Who knows you might be here

[1:07:13]
for six months, you might be here for six years. And so sometimes those personal conversations really help as well. And it's again, you know, if if we are clear on our pathway and we keep relentlessly communicate that, you know, upfront uh website, emails, everything that it it becomes a share language. You know, their friends going to tell them like, oh, have you gone to on board yet? and you know encourage them to come up uh to come along and becomes a share language where that that connection is not just a job of one person a team but

[1:07:45]
everyone at church. >> Um thank you. Uh it's been very helpful. Um we notice that our first timers don't want to share their details and so following them up is very difficult. Um do you find the same thing or is there a way around that? You know maybe after someone's come two or three times they might be happy to share but yeah how do you do that followup for first timers?

[1:08:17]
>> So sometimes uh we we do something called connection time is a segment in our Sunday service that happens every week for about three minutes where we project a QR code. We get people to scan uh scan that QR code, fill in the connection card and it's an invitation for everyone in the room. So not just our newcomers so that you know our members will scan that um and they will maybe if they want they can also name the next step like maybe they want to serve more or they want to give start

[1:08:47]
giving you know we also are profile using that form to proide platform for them to do that. So it doesn't become so scary. It's only the newcomers who's doing it. Uh or that you know there's some newcomers card somewhere down in in your seat pocket and that you expect expecting them to pick it up. Uh the connection time really works and and that it captures the data for our newcomers because they can actually take where they're at. Sometimes they will say I've visited great city before. So they take that box but then they say

[1:09:18]
this is my first time filling out this card. So then I know okay well it's a bit of a different message right like if want to give the right message to the right person at the right time and someone who has returned and now sudden like finally give us their details indicated that there is enough buy in now you know they might be a bit skeptical at the beginning but this is the people I want to keep pursuing. So that's that's how we we do it. It's worth saying that in some ways the the goal is not to get your details. The goal is to get you to on board. Uh your

[1:09:50]
details just help us provide another you know put another thing. It's another way of telling you what your next step is. But in many ways there's like they're going to hear everything about on board in Sundays and on the website. what we have through the details is it's just another opportunity to send them an email and say hey but at the end of the day if you're not ready to give us that that's fine we're not going to hassle you it's your decision when you wanted to to give it to us but

[1:10:21]
we do add on board everyone gives us all those so we'll get them if you come to on board we'll get you eventually um but if you don't want to if you don't want to be followed up you make that clear by not engaging with us and we affect you have permission to to to not engage in that way. >> Thanks so much. I'm interested uh in terms of maybe this is different for a church plant, but in in an established church uh thinking through recclarifying

[1:10:51]
or resetting uh care expectations. Love to hear any wisdom on that. >> Reclarifying and resetting care expectations. I guess it is something that you first of all your team members needs to be on board right like if you if you are not just your uh one a one person team you want your even if you are one person on staff you know you want to start small you try to communicate that starting

[1:11:23]
with the people who are uh heavily you know you you're heavily invested people who are actually involved in this process they are your key stakeholders as in any change management you know you start there and then you know make deliberate and intentional steps to have it flow on. I think that that would be you know like the the the good way to do it. I'm sure there are many other ways as well but to maybe it is something like so for example in our context we want to launch that care level the care team level and one of the initiatives

[1:11:54]
I'm thinking of is to launch a group care uh that maybe a divorce care group or maybe a bereavement group like a grief share group and starting with that group as we promote that particular initiative we're trying to then continue to give out that information like this is our framework. This is how you know we want to make make sure that we care for you well. So I think you can do it both starting with your team with your key volunteers and also starting with

[1:12:25]
initiative as you do promo you can do it in your socials you can make sure it's the charts on your website you know you might decided to do practical cares through a care form something new that you're doing that's the time when you I think it's the best way to then like ah we're doing a bit of a revamp because we notice some gaps and we want to be able to care for you all better so that's a suggestion >> if If you have a membership moment, that's also a helpful place to, you know, as people come in, you can say,

[1:12:56]
"Hey, if you're wondering how do people get cared at this church, here's how people get cared for at this church." And so, you know, you're conditioning the newcomer. And then I would think the way to uh bring about change management in this space would be to start with you know start with your staff team first if you got to get them on board and then go to your community your small group leaders because they will be a a key layer where a lot of this care happens in the church and so winning them first

[1:13:26]
after the staff team I think would be the the key place to do it. Uh firstly, thank you. Really appreciate the clarity and the intentionality. Um I think you said something about on board being for followers of Jesus Christians. Just trying to think through like I guess we have a welcome event that we invite anyone to and then we sort of go from there. Can you talk more about your thinking with Christians coming to the membership course and

[1:13:56]
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, can I just double check? You're you begin with a everyone's welcome and then from there you say, "Hey, go to this or go to that." Is that >> Yeah. So, it's maybe there's two different events or I'm just interested in how you're thinking through those steps. So we following EV I don't know what they do these days but they used to have from what I understand newish as kind of it's the anyone can come along you know we used to have it at our place and then from that I'd tell you about on board or explore so explore is for the

[1:14:28]
new believer on board is for Christians and we communicate that every Sunday it's on the website all of that the thing that I was finding is that people weren't sure it it wasn't clear to them. So, do I have to come to Newish or like is is that like an extra where does Newish fit in the pathway? And it was always an optional. It's like, hey, come if you want, but you don't have to. So, why would I come to that and not that? And so, for us, it was just

[1:15:01]
clearer to have it's either this or that. There's not a first step. Now if if in your context you decide actually this other thing is invite only you have to come to this first then you know you can just communicate that but that wasn't our system and so that first step actually for us functioned as a it made it more confusing rather than more helpful um and yes it does mean that occasionally you know non-Christians will turn up to on board that's okay over the course of like we had someone

[1:15:31]
kind of over the course of on board go I I I'm not sure that I actually do believe all of this. It's like no worries, let me tell you about explore. Um, so you kind of you often will figure some of that stuff out, although not always. Um, yeah, thanks guys. Do you guys automate anything in your kind of connection to three bridge pathway? And another question is, do you have any idea of trends or like a normative data with your integration ratio? And are they similar between your two congregations,

[1:16:04]
your two campuses? What's the first question? >> Automation. >> Automation. So, do you mean like a follow-up? >> More like does your like Elvanto system kind of automatically text people? I think you said typically all do you automate anything? >> Do I do we automate anything? >> Yeah. Just church. Yeah, >> we do. We do. Do we automate anything? Okay. So we we we do in the sense that um uh well I have to say probably we

[1:16:37]
start with a no. So when people fill in the data uh give us their their contact info we we do actually have to use human eyes to run through them properly because sometimes they're duplicate profile sometimes I've spoken to someone I know they are a household so I do have to do that and then um the automation will come in in some sense that uh we we have a group of people in that group we just click and then we send an email to them >> particularly in the followup sorry I should have clarified um >> so so the follow-up email usually it

[1:17:09]
sits you kind of still need to press it can't be people fill out a form and then they get an email because oftent times we find out that that's not giving the right person the right message uh because sometimes you know Jonathan Jonathan Smith today he's Jonathan Smith last week he put Jonno Smith so you know I don't want to keep you know creating messages that that doesn't fit that person so in some sense yes the system helps but I still feel like there is a need for an eye for it. Yeah.

[1:17:42]
>> So to clarify PCO which is what we use it can automate. >> It can >> but we've decided rather than just you submit this you get an immediate thing. We have slowed ourselves down so that we can just cast a human eye over the data make sure it's accurate and then the automation process. So it's a conscious step not to automate to make sure that >> the right person is getting the right message >> and also because if they say that today is the first visit, we have a few options for them. So some someone might

[1:18:13]
take I'm just visiting one off like you know I'm just visiting Sydney oneoff. My message to them is actually quite different. So I'm I'm more just I acknowledge your your you know under of the rich the rea I I probably just acknowledge that visit. I don't have to tell them all the other stuff. And I think, you know, if I'm asking that question and they fill in an answer and I'm actually not tailorating my message to them, then I I feel that's not respectful of their time. You know what I mean? Like, so that's why I think it's

[1:18:44]
still Tim still needs me. >> No, [laughter] >> you don't actually send those emails though, do you? I trained uh interns to do it >> which is awesome by the way. Uh in ter the second one was about integration ratios. Can you just finish it off? >> Do you know what percentage of people of your first ex attenders are your second attenders and how many of those do you want to invite and then how many of those actually attend? >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:19:14]
>> And then become members. Uh so I can't tell you today's figures um because we're we're actually redoing our dashboarding at the moment for a long time and plus these days what we're tracking by first time guest is not actually the first time guest. It's the first time someone has given us their contact details. That's these days that's the only way we know that they're a first-time guest because there's so many of them. Back in the day, it was

[1:19:45]
actually first-time guests because we were small enough that I could count every new person. And so it in some ways the the goalposts have shifted slightly to compare them now versus previously. What I can tell you is in the past like we we measured it all um and we had first how many people first timers, second timers, regular attenders become members. I the percentage for probably the first three or four years was about 12% of firsttime visitors ended up as

[1:20:18]
members. Now I used to look at that and get really depressed by that. Um what over time what I realized is 50% of the firsttime visitors weren't coming back. And part of the way I made my peace with this was to tell myself whether it was true or not is the way I made myself feel better was okay they never had any intention of coming back anyway. You know they're a visitor. They're just from out of town. They've come and they're like oh you know I thought you were this kind of church. You're not. So

[1:20:50]
we haven't failed this. You know it wasn't a bad welcoming process that led us down there. again where I'm more interested is then and again I I can't give you today's data that's what it used to be is okay what's the second time guest to in to um regular attender what's going on there is there any reason okay how many of these people are becoming members so that uh and again so for us it was 12% um I learned early on

[1:21:21]
don't compare myself to other churches compare our church what what was our church last here and so if you have trend data that way you go okay that's what it was last year is there anything we can do to improve it change it just among friends I I often felt a bit deflated because we were trying all sorts of things and I could never quite get it above 12%. And >> we do still have um lots of questions, but um I don't know whether this is bad

[1:21:51]
news or good news. Um uh the bad news is that it's pouring outside um and it doesn't look like it's going to abate anytime soon. So the decision has been made that we are to stay here for the time being. The other groups will go and get dinner as they can and then they will come and let us know. So, they've asked us to stay in here preferably. We can go out there if we need to, but we can stay in here. But the good news is that we've got more time for Q&A. So, if you need to go,

[1:22:22]
feel free to go, but otherwise, should we just Are you happy to keep answering? >> Can I double check? This says wrap up. Band needs to rehearse. >> Is that just a stock standard message or do we have time for Q&A or not? I'm getting a five more minutes. >> Okay. Does that mean dinner we they can go to dinner in five minutes or no? We're still waiting to be told. Okay, we'll do a few more questions and then we can just hang out here and talk all things community. >> Uh thanks so much guys. I I before I get

[1:22:54]
to my question that I think that was the maybe the best I've ever seen at theologically driven um practical outworking. I loved how every point came straight from was a Bible think about this and so I was really impressed and thankful. take lots away on that. Theologically, I've often struggled with the language of of someone choosing to become a member >> because aren't they, if they're a Christian and they're regularly attending, aren't they already a member? >> Is that an unhelpful thing to suggest to them that they're not? >> Great. Uh, really good question. Can I

[1:23:25]
take this? >> So, I'm pretty sure the language that Donna used was membership is about recognizing and receiving those who are members of Christ's heavenly church. So it's you are a member of Christ's church. You are united to him, seated with him in the heavenly realms at the moment that you put your faith in Christ, receive the Holy Spirit. You're a member of Christ's church. But that doesn't necessarily mean you start gathering in a local body of believers.

[1:23:56]
And we know from the scriptures that membership in the heavenly church is supposed to be expressed in and just the gospel naturally draws us into local bodies of believers, the body of Christ. And so part of what I think membership is doing is recognizing that and receiving them in. And this is where I think church discipline comes in because what you're doing in church discipline is saying, "Hey, I can't see whether you're a member of the heavenly church." like only God can see that. But the way

[1:24:27]
that you're behaving, this posture of public and unrepentant sin is making me I can't see your heart, but you know, I can see the fruit and that's leading me to question. I'm what's happening has are you actually a member of Christ Church? And so that yeah, so that for us is the language of membership. We try to make that clear at on board to the extent that we can. Yeah. Does that clarify to

[1:24:58]
some degree? >> Yeah. >> But then when you ask someone, do you want to become a member? >> We will say, do you would you like to become a member of Grace City? >> Yeah. >> So this church um Yeah. >> Yeah. Um uh and I'm okay with that, you know. Uh because the church is a body. body has many members. It's like are you a member of the body that is you know I think body is one of those words that

[1:25:29]
depending on where you're reading it is either whole church or local church. Um are you a member of the body that is Grace City? No. So yeah I'm okay with it. Yeah. But I appreciate the nuance. There's a question off the back. Is is there a microphone? >> Sorry. Uh sadly there are lots of questions but yes we have to stop because the band needs to um >> fantastic >> to practice. I'm standing right back here but I think

[1:26:00]
we all are really grateful for um for the work that you have put into this.