What if the most important decisions about your small groups are the ones you’ve never stopped to think about?
In this episode, Scott Sanders chats with Richard Sweatman, author and assistant pastor at Hunter Bible Church in Newcastle, to unpack the hidden decisions that shape every small groups ministry. Whether you’ve inherited responsibility for small groups or you’re rethinking how they fit into the life of your church this episode is for you.
Key highlights:
- Clarifying your small group purpose
- Defining small group success
- Choosing small group structures
- Small group pathways
- Curriculum and leadership
- Practical questions you should ask before making changes
Toolbox:
Being a Small Group Leader by Richard Sweatman
Writing a Small Group Study by Richard Sweatman
DISCOUNT CODE: THE1THING for 30% off at Matthias Media when you purchase 10 or more of either of Richard’s books
The One Thing Ep 418: Measuring small group health with Richard Sweatman
Growth Groups by Colin Marshall
Leading Small Groups That Thrive by Ryan T. Hartwig, Courtney W. Davis & Jason A. Sniff
Iron Sharpens Iron by Orlando Saer
Credits:
This episode was brought to you by MTS
The One Thing is brought to you by Reach Australia
To pray for Reach Australia, join our WhatsApp Group
For ideas or questions please email [email protected]
Support Reach Australia’s online library
Transcript:
The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
00;00;08;15 – 00;00;40;14
Scott
G’day, I’m Scott Sanders. Welcome to the One Thing, a podcast designed to give you one solid practical tip for gospel centered ministry every week. Today, we’re looking at something people often make assumptions about, and that’s small groups. We’re going to get a list of practical questions that most people don’t ask, but are greatly important to know. This series of three episodes, this mini series with Richard Sweetman from Hunter Bible Church, just north of Sydney, Newcastle, wants to, push into the scary task of coordinating small groups.
00;00;40;20 – 00;00;51;09
Scott
So if you’ve been struggling the deep end and someone said, hey, I want you to look after the small group ministry, this is for you. So over the next three episodes, we’re wanting to unpack a whole bunch of practical questions. Get out! Richard.
00;00;51;16 – 00;00;52;25
Richard
Good. I Scott, great to be here.
00;00;52;27 – 00;00;59;08
Scott
Good, good. Now, this is an area that, that you’ve been working in now for 25 years, and I got there.
00;00;59;12 – 00;01;09;12
Richard
Oh, that’s a little long. No, it’s it’s about 15 to 20 years. Yes. In the small group space. And I’ve just stuck with it over the years for some one reason or another. I’m still here.
00;01;09;18 – 00;01;18;29
Scott
Can I can you tell us about your first small group experience? So when you became a, you know, baby Christian or New Christian, or did you grow up in a Christian family? So was it a small group in a Sunday school context?
00;01;19;00 – 00;01;31;04
Richard
Yeah, I remember being in a small group for, for you guys in our local Anglican church in Sydney, led by a guy, called Brad, who, reminds the reminded me of Garth from Wayne’s World.
00;01;31;07 – 00;01;33;12
Scott
You know that movie? Yeah. Blond hair.
00;01;33;15 – 00;01;46;23
Richard
He was a rocker sort of dude. Long hair. But he loved us. And he opened the Bible with us. And I remember, you know, learning about predestination for the first time in that, small group. But, Yeah, that’s an early memory. I have an early memory.
00;01;46;23 – 00;02;03;03
Scott
Predestination with Garth from Wayne’s World from Oxford. But for now, you press play on the one thing the hidden decisions behind every small groups ministry part one of three.
00;02;03;05 – 00;02;29;08
Speaker 3
This episode is brought to you by MTS Ministry Training Strategy. Harvest workers need to be healthy workers at MTS, where rising training and resourcing healthy trainers. They can then rise up healthy workers for the harvest. To find out more, we’d love to connect. Head along to our website at mts.com so that you.
00;02;29;10 – 00;02;39;23
Scott
So, Richard, I wonder if you can get us just thinking from the start. What are some key kind of biblical foundations for thinking about a small group’s ecosystem in church life?
00;02;39;26 – 00;02;55;11
Richard
Yeah. So it’s good to start with the Bible. Say, we’ve been given this job offer, and I’m overseeing the small group ministry. So before you rush into practicalities, think, what does the Bible have to say about small group ministry? And as most people have worked out, there’s nothing in the Bible that says you must have a small groups ministry.
00;02;55;11 – 00;03;01;11
Scott
Okay, okay. So I mean, there’s nothing in the Bible that says you should be meeting up and getting around God’s Word regularly.
00;03;01;11 – 00;03;27;02
Richard
Well, no, you’ve, twisted my words. It’s, Nothing but this sort of weekly in a home structure. And, I think the one thing that has done a podcast with Silas on that question historically. Yeah. But, that’s okay. There’s a lot of great things that aren’t necessarily in the Bible, but what you want to do is think what what a Christian is supposed to be doing in their lives in their weeks, what is, particularly what are they supposed to supposed to be doing together?
00;03;27;05 – 00;03;49;03
Richard
And so if you just going to flip through your Bible, looking at passages along those lines, you’ll start to you can fill a whiteboard with the things that you want to be saying. So, you might be looking at, something like Ephesians four 1 to 16, which is about, being, aware of false teaching and growing and knowledge and maturity, being united in love.
00;03;49;03 – 00;04;24;14
Richard
You would spend time there. You would spend time in Colossians chapter three looking at transformation in people’s lives, something like two Timothy 314 to 16 about, the word of God, Scripture and its usefulness and capacity for change or even, of course, Hebrews 1025, that classic verse about do not give up meeting together, but spur each other on, and so all these kind of foundations would lead you in the direction of, it is great for Christians to be meeting together, meeting regularly, meeting around God’s word, speaking the truth in love, being prayerful.
00;04;24;17 – 00;04;38;12
Richard
But it’s there’s something special about just discovering that for yourself rather than pulling it off the first chapter of a, any standard small groups book, discover it for yourself or with your team. What what what does the Bible love about people gathering together?
00;04;38;15 – 00;04;49;15
Scott
But, like small groups, they’re kind of a modern phenomenon, aren’t they? Look at their, they’re a, thing that’s only been around for probably 50, 60 years in kind of church life or.
00;04;49;17 – 00;05;08;17
Richard
Yeah, in different ways, like way back in reformation time. So you could have a small group, but that might will be illegal and you could end up in jail because you’re not meeting with the bishops approval. So Christians intuitively gather together. Yeah. Like I often think if I was to ban grace groups in my church, in our church at Hannah Bible Church, people would meet anyway.
00;05;08;17 – 00;05;33;01
Richard
They’d ignore the ban. The spirit draws people together. So they have been on and off in a lot of ways in different times in history. But more recently, yeah, I think, as Silas explained, they’ve come out of, university ministry and managing the social effects of the car and television and changed weekends and things like that. So, if you want your people gathering, meeting together, they’re not going to just meet at the local shop or at the farmers market.
00;05;33;03 – 00;05;42;27
Richard
We’re not a village. That kind of arrangement anymore. We expect people to get in their vehicles, travel at night time. Yeah, meet together in in that kind of way.
00;05;42;29 – 00;06;02;09
Scott
Well, it’s, as we think into the foundation of small groups, it’s really important to sort of start with the end in mind, you know, so the where so what are some clear outcomes that you’re aiming for and what are some key questions that you want to ask, and get clarified before you set up your small group structure?
00;06;02;10 – 00;06;21;18
Richard
Yeah. Yeah. So I think anyone who’s, you know, working on a small group structure, overseeing that needs to work out even even more clarity what they want from this small group ministry. You know, you do Bible foundations there, but you might want to focus in on some particular things. So you’re looking at Christian growth, Bible learning knowledge, theology, doctrine.
00;06;21;21 – 00;06;41;04
Richard
You’re looking at some connection, relationships, friendships, fellowship, that kind of thing. Is it mission focused, looking outwards? Is are these groups that serve together? They’re the sort of things you’re going to be working at. And, as what I think is really valuable is for a small group coordinator or late team leader to have clarity on that.
00;06;41;06 – 00;06;49;08
Richard
For us, it’s looked like a real focus on Christian growth, change, transformation. But with the acknowledgment that all of those other aspects are important as well.
00;06;49;13 – 00;07;00;21
Scott
So you, you know, I guess, are you acknowledging that you can’t do every, you know, all those things you talk about? Is it hard to do all those things? Is it best to have a, a focus? And, yeah.
00;07;00;23 – 00;07;15;12
Richard
I mean, I can’t speak for every church, but I think it’s hard to do all of those things. And, yeah, when we find, when we, we, we, I send emails to group leaders saying, make sure we pray for your mission, partner. And, hey, you’re on roster this week. And how about you have a social in the weekend?
00;07;15;14 – 00;07;30;25
Richard
The emails start to get less read less and less. So I try to be protective of our groups, help them focus on the main thing. But though all those other things are good, and I kind of want them coming in as well, and as groups get more healthy, they tend to be able to take on more things.
00;07;30;27 – 00;07;38;18
Richard
But as they’re starting out there in that forming sort of phase, yeah, I don’t want to overwhelm them with five, six, seven different purposes.
00;07;38;21 – 00;07;40;26
Scott
What are the key questions you want to be asking?
00;07;40;28 – 00;08;03;17
Richard
Well, key questions, and I want to be asking, for the, for, for people setting up groups. It’s like not only the purpose to get clarity on that, but how does this group fit within the structures and ecosystems of the church? So you need to be just pursue clarity, like who is running these groups? Which sort of area of church do they sit under?
00;08;03;19 – 00;08;19;13
Richard
How what are the pathways into this group for people joining? What are the entrance requirements, that kind of thing. And, what are the who is it? You know, the different sort of pastoral relationships that oversee that group? Where does it fit in the ecosystem of the church?
00;08;19;16 – 00;08;40;18
Scott
So often when we when we say a pathway sort of mapped out, you’ll, you’ll say a person’s established in church. And then there’s the, the growing box and then the serving box and then the on mission box. That’s right. So the person responsible, the small group structures is kind of responsible for that growing, that growing box, which could be a whole bunch of things.
00;08;40;20 – 00;08;43;19
Scott
But primarily, often the champion structures is small groups.
00;08;43;19 – 00;09;05;09
Richard
Yes. That’s often the way. And so just clarity on how are people going to find their way into that group. Is it some other team, getting to know that person, established them, helping them join church and then passing their name on, in our church, we try to have a bit of push and pull. So we have the membership welcoming side of people, chatting with people and pushing them into groups.
00;09;05;09 – 00;09;28;14
Richard
And I want my team in the small group kind of space pulling people into groups. So we got two teams, both motivated to see groups. People. More people in groups and growing. Yep. Which is important to, to set that vision, inspire people too, because sometimes people joining groups can make life more difficult as they, groups overfill or people have complex lives.
00;09;28;14 – 00;09;33;12
Richard
We want to keep inspiring our teams that, yeah, more people in groups is a good thing.
00;09;33;15 – 00;09;42;23
Scott
Right. What’s helpful to able to see where it is on the pathway. So with clarify the outcomes, what are some of the big structural decisions that we need to start to make?
00;09;42;25 – 00;09;58;20
Richard
Yeah. Look, there’s a few we could run through. So, how does the small groups relate to the church as a whole? That there’s a traditionally kind of a three part category, three ways of thinking about this is your church, your church with small groups, a church of small groups or church is small groups.
00;09;58;20 – 00;10;01;13
Scott
Okay. So, unpack that.
00;10;01;15 – 00;10;16;18
Richard
Well, the church with small groups is like we we do church, we do this ministry, that ministry, one of our ministries is small groups. If that’s the sort of thing you like, you can join that group, but if not, you could join, do something else. That’s a church with small groups, a church of small groups. Is that, we’re a church.
00;10;16;18 – 00;10;28;28
Richard
And really, if you look at us from a certain angle, we’re made up of all these different people in different grace groups, in small groups. It’s a normal and good and expected thing to be if you’re part of this church, to be part of a grace group.
00;10;29;01 – 00;10;32;10
Scott
Okay. So it’s not a how are you describing a house church or not?
00;10;32;12 – 00;11;00;06
Richard
No. In that, the third one is like a church is small groups. Gotcha. We’re like, well, what’s the most important thing? It is really is in the home people gathered. And those those things may collect on a Sunday at different points. But really, the heart of it is in that small group in the home experience. So, there the different strategies we’ve gone, with being a church of small groups and I think, in our circles, that’s a desirable kind of strategy for a lot of people.
00;11;00;09 – 00;11;19;01
Richard
So that’s a that’s the first one, you know, what kind of small group structure relationship to the church. Then other things, you got to think through how these small groups can be organized. Are they going to be organized by geography, like in a certain location? It doesn’t matter which congregation you’re part of. You’d go to a group in that location, that geography, or your group is going to be congregational based.
00;11;19;01 – 00;11;43;07
Richard
Do you want people in the same congregation to be meeting in the, in groups together, or just a campus? You might if you got, if we’re multi-site, maybe people from the one campus, not necessarily the same congregation might meet in groups or perhaps demographic based groups, retirees, women with children during the day. Students, maybe you’ve got, demographic based small groups.
00;11;43;07 – 00;11;47;15
Scott
So, Richard, what’s a what’s the right answer? You know, which one should we be going for?
00;11;47;15 – 00;12;07;13
Richard
Well, they have pros and cons, and we’ve tried different things at different times usually, and it will end up with a blend. We need to as, latest to be flexible as well as have principles for health. I think, congregational groups are great because you’ve got a it’s so good seeing people twice in the week. And, that really helps, connection and growth.
00;12;07;16 – 00;12;32;04
Richard
But there’s going to be flexibility. So sometimes, yeah, people can make it on a day time with their kids. And if they’re at different congregations that’s that’s okay. Or maybe they’re driving half an hour, 45 minutes away from another place. It’s going to be hard for those people to come in to the city twice during a week, maybe can build a group out there for, a geographical, have a group out there.
00;12;32;06 – 00;12;52;06
Richard
So be flexible, but be sensitive to the pros and cons of those different ones. So yeah, there’s this decision. You also got to think about whether you’re going to gather people into a central location for groups or keep, groups generally out in the wild in people’s households, living rooms and so on. There are pros and cons to that strategy.
00;12;52;06 – 00;13;10;26
Richard
And again, you might have a mix of things. You got to think about the life cycle of a group. And these groups are going to be continuous, just rolling on from one month, one year, one decade to the next. Or is there some other life cycle where, things come to a close after one year or two years, they relaunch?
00;13;10;29 – 00;13;19;25
Richard
Well, the decisions you make there will affect the the health and the character, the make up of the groups. And then I well, I’ll keep going Scott.
00;13;19;26 – 00;13;20;10
Scott
Yeah, yeah.
00;13;20;12 – 00;13;22;24
Richard
Well we got it. You got to think there’s.
00;13;22;24 – 00;13;25;12
Scott
A lot there’s a lot of things you got to pay attention. Does I keep going? Yeah.
00;13;25;12 – 00;13;42;08
Richard
What else you got to think about the inclusion or exclusion criteria for your group. So they how open are they? So, do your groups welcome? Non-Christians as well as Christians, or is there a different strategy or pathway there? Do your groups only work at welcome church members? What do you do about people who are not part of your church?
00;13;42;08 – 00;14;06;16
Richard
You want to join your groups. You need to have a strategy for them. And what kind of commitment, do you want people to make for them to be, invited into a group? Part of a group. Some groups have a group covenant. Covenant or. But it could just be a commitment. Like, what are you expecting from your group, members such that if they weren’t able to commit to that, you might say to them, well, group’s not going to be right for you at the moment.
00;14;06;18 – 00;14;25;00
Scott
Now, the reality is, I think for a lot of people jumping into this space, they will have experienced a small group structure of some sort, and they will have experienced it without being thoughtful about any of any of those decisions. Yeah. So what is it, what does it look like, I guess, to, to bring change, to bring movement.
00;14;25;02 – 00;14;34;09
Scott
Is it easy to do in the small group space or, or is this a particular aspect of church life that is, you know, a slow, you know, moving, beast? Yeah.
00;14;34;09 – 00;14;58;05
Richard
Well, people in this space will sometimes inherit groups structure, or they will sometimes be just creating it from scratch. More often it’s inheriting, but to, yeah, bring freshness and thinking into this space and realizing what we, what our assumptions are as normal. That might not be that might, might not be normal. The things I would recommend is talking with a small group to say, you know, give me an hour of your time.
00;14;58;05 – 00;15;15;23
Richard
How do you do this? What do you do here? What do you do there? Or even just, a simple one is just to pull out a small group book from your local Christian bookshelf or your bookshop or bookshelf, just read a small group book and you’ll find. Wow, that’s pretty weird. Yeah, I remember reading one and this guy was saying, here’s my idea for small groups.
00;15;15;29 – 00;15;35;03
Richard
This is in the USA. Yeah, we meet during game time. The NFL game time, and we watch the first half and we do Bible study at half time, and then we watch the second half. And that that’s been our key to success in getting small group ministry happening. Now, I haven’t chosen to imitate that strategy, but, five books just get you thinking.
00;15;35;03 – 00;15;39;08
Scott
Well, in Newcastle the first half could be very different for the second half of the Knights of going.
00;15;39;08 – 00;15;40;08
Richard
So that’s right.
00;15;40;08 – 00;15;55;16
Scott
Could be a, it could be a tough second, second. Yeah. I want us to think about what we call them because. Because naming, you know, naming in small groups something actually, it says a lot about what you’re trying to achieve often.
00;15;55;16 – 00;16;00;03
Richard
Yeah, yeah. And small groups are notorious for having many, many names across the decades.
00;16;00;03 – 00;16;10;14
Scott
So I’m very careful to just say small groups. And even then it could be that could be one on one. They could be one, two, three, they could be 10 to 12. They could be, you know, 20 to 40 as well is another is a small group.
00;16;10;14 – 00;16;12;14
Richard
That’s right. Small groups is the generic sort of name.
00;16;12;14 – 00;16;15;20
Scott
And what should we call them. And does it actually matter.
00;16;15;23 – 00;16;36;10
Richard
I think it does matter because what you call them, indicates what their primary purpose is. A can’t really get our way around that. So is it growth group is it a connect group? Is it a gospel group? A mission team, a community group, what you how you label it will affect, how people treat it, what its purpose is.
00;16;36;10 – 00;16;39;26
Richard
And so, I don’t want to give a right or wrong answer for that.
00;16;39;27 – 00;16;41;06
Scott
What do you do at HPC?
00;16;41;09 – 00;17;03;20
Richard
HPC we call them growth groups. Because as I said before, we chose to focus in on growth for those other things being important. But is secondary in some sense. And, that has been helpful. I like that because people will naturally drift more towards community and friendship and relationship rather than growth. Growth often involves changing your life, repenting of sin.
00;17;03;22 – 00;17;26;24
Richard
It can be hard. And so I’m kind of focusing on the hard thing. Trusting that the, community thing will happen will, alongside that. But, yeah, I’m perfectly comfortable with a range of names. And so being united on that as a team and united with your wider staff team, your senior pastor, it’s an important decision to make early on in what you do.
00;17;26;27 – 00;17;32;04
Scott
Okay. So we’ve got the name now. How do we decide on the curriculum? Yeah, that group should use.
00;17;32;05 – 00;17;38;00
Richard
That’s a common question, you know, do you follow the sermon? Do people write their own? Is an independent mix, that sort of thing.
00;17;38;00 – 00;17;42;22
Scott
And again, people are asking, what’s the right answer here, Richard? They want to know what is right.
00;17;42;25 – 00;17;44;15
Richard
So yeah, I think.
00;17;44;15 – 00;17;47;01
Scott
I mean to disappoint me again. There’s it’s no right answer.
00;17;47;01 – 00;17;53;24
Richard
I think there’s a common movement towards sermon based groups. Larry Osborne, I think, wrote about this in a book a few years ago.
00;17;53;26 – 00;17;54;16
Scott
Dickie Church.
00;17;54;16 – 00;18;13;25
Richard
I think that was it. Yeah. But I think it’s that’s that’s not necessarily the right answer. What, what we’ve chosen to do at our church, not explain the reason why, is to have a mix of sometimes following the sermon, sometimes other, Bible studies provided by my team and leaders, and sometimes people write their own.
00;18;14;00 – 00;18;32;25
Richard
So that’s trying to get a bit of all the good things. So if it synchronizes with the sermon in some sense there you get people looking at the passage twice more or less in the week. They’re learning from the sermon, learning from studies. There’s a, that’s a bit of a growth boost kind of time. But the drawback is you’re covering less Bible in a year.
00;18;32;27 – 00;18;53;05
Richard
So for that reason, we’ve given other terms where we supply other studies, that on different material. So people are covering more of the Bible, some Old Testament or different formats. And then there are other times when it’s just great to give leaders a bit of freedom to write their own. We say to them, look, you know, your group, you can sense there’s ideas there.
00;18;53;05 – 00;19;07;26
Richard
Why don’t you work out what you’re going to do for a period of five weeks or ten weeks, you know, during the term and the latest tend to love that they get into it. And then by the time it’s over, they’re like, yep, give me the prepared material. I’ve had enough of that. But think thoughtfully about your curriculum.
00;19;07;26 – 00;19;14;06
Scott
And what about, pre pre written, you know, off the shelf curriculum. What’s your thoughts on that.
00;19;14;06 – 00;19;45;28
Richard
Oh yeah. There’s a lot of great stuff around from just go to a reputable publisher. You’ll find good pre-written studies there. And that’ll be a big time saver. Very trustworthy. At our church, we have tended to be writing our own content just because it means that we can make more particular applications, or we can design the length, the length we want so we fit it with a sermon series or include testimonies from our, mission partners or, certain advertising promotions for other things that we do.
00;19;46;01 – 00;19;51;05
Richard
But yeah, if in other circumstances. Yep. Pre-written stuff, you’d be fine.
00;19;51;07 – 00;20;03;13
Scott
Yeah. Richard, I wonder if you can help us again. Just sort of pull back our. Think about the big picture. The ecosystem of church life. What role, should small groups play in the wider life of church?
00;20;03;13 – 00;20;22;11
Richard
Yeah, that’s an important one, I think in, in in our, growth group, infographic in our commitments kind of thing. We say upfront groups are part of the life of the wider church. Groups left, neglected can tend to withdraw into their own sort of community. But we can say, yeah, let’s be part of the wider church.
00;20;22;13 – 00;20;42;01
Richard
So just to be upfront, think about what are you going to have part to play with rosters? Are you going to be joining with Mission partners? We’re going to give you mission partners to support, be ready to receive communication. So growth groups are key communication strategy. And so leaders and group members are on board with like watching a video from your senior pastor.
00;20;42;01 – 00;21;00;08
Richard
We’re hearing some announcements. So that can be part of the expectation, but it’s helpful for a small group. A leader to, be a bit of a gatekeeper of those sort of things. The wider church will come to you and say, growth rates could do this. They could cater for this event or growth groups can support this missionary.
00;21;00;08 – 00;21;08;09
Richard
You’ll go and do this and kind of love that. But, they will get overwhelmed. So as a small group leader, you meet to be the gatekeeper of that sort of thing.
00;21;08;11 – 00;21;19;11
Scott
Right? So they’re a key part of the, ecosystem. They can help with communication. They can help with, building mission height, but you don’t want to overload them with too much and you don’t want to overload, you know.
00;21;19;11 – 00;21;21;21
Richard
That’s right. Be strategic about what you ask from them.
00;21;21;23 – 00;21;40;06
Scott
Well, one thing we haven’t touched on yet is the leadership structure behind all of this. Specifically, who’s actually on the small groups team and where the group leaders sit. Now, that’s going to be our next episode. So stick around. This is just episode one. But I, I want to, I want to pick up on that in the next episode.
00;21;40;06 – 00;21;45;02
Scott
But before we end, what’s the one thing that you want listeners to take away from this episode?
00;21;45;02 – 00;21;55;08
Richard
All right, well, speaking to our small group leader coordinator passes out there. I would love for you to work out what place does your small group ministry have in the life of your church?
00;21;55;10 – 00;22;16;08
Scott
Perfect. Excellent. Well, I’m looking forward to keeping this conversation going. Richard. But, before we, finish this episode, just a few, a few tools, a few resources to recommend. So let me just open up the toolbox. If if, as you’re thinking about this, you’re thinking, well, this is all really helpful, but I want to I want to work out, you know, how to measure this and how to work out what good actually looks like.
00;22;16;12 – 00;22;38;24
Scott
Well, Richard has, done an episode for us on that. Measuring small group health, what actually matters. So you might want to dive in that that’ll help you think about your your ways as you think about what to, to measure, and just a couple of a couple of books that Richard recommends, Growth Groups by Colin Marshall is an oldie but a goodie, another book leading small groups that thrive.
00;22;38;26 – 00;22;54;18
Scott
And then lastly, iron sharpens Iron by Orlando Sierra. So we’ll put a link in the show notes to each of those books. Now, if you think this is a helpful episode, if you’ve got this ministry happening in church, but it needs to be handed over to someone, then why don’t you pass, this episode, onto them?
00;22;54;23 – 00;23;06;17
Scott
Or if you’re in a staff team, this could be a really useful episode just to, pause and think about, the where of your small groups and and start that conversation as well. Scott Sanders chat soon.
