Church planting is often treated as something only large churches can do. The latest Growth and Change report suggests otherwise. Across the Reach Australia network, smaller churches and unlikely partnerships are launching new congregations and reaching people who were never going to walk into an existing church.
This episode explores what last year’s church plants are teaching the rest of us. If most Australians still don’t know Jesus, the question isn’t whether churches feel ready to plant, but whether we are organising our ministry to reach the 95% who aren’t in church.
In this episode:
- Why new churches continue to reach new people
- The rise of partnerships between churches to plant together
- How smaller churches are multiplying through intentional leadership pipelines
- The tension between filling staff roles and sending church planters
- Practical first steps for churches wanting to move toward church planting
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Credits:
This episode was brought to you by Exdia
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Transcript:
00:00:02:08 – 00:00:04:18
Scott Sanders
00:00:04:20 – 00:00:07:06
Derek Hanna
00:00:07:08 – 00:00:13:14
Scott Sanders
00:00:13:16 – 00:00:13:23
Derek Hanna
00:00:13:24 – 00:00:16:03
Scott Sanders
You get I am Scott Sanders.
00:00:16:05 – 00:00:17:04
Derek Hanna
I’m Derek Hanna.
00:00:17:06 – 00:00:37:06
Scott Sanders
Welcome to the One Thing, a podcast designed to give you one solid practical tip for gospel centered ministry. Every week. We, looking this week at the Growth and Change report. It’s our annual report where we look at what is happening and give thanks to God for all that he’s doing across the network in and amongst our churches.
00:00:37:08 – 00:01:00:01
Scott Sanders
And I want to particularly look at, at the topic of or what we’re seeing in new churches this year with Derek Hannah, the director of church planning for Reach Australia. So, Derek, I want to, what what’s been your favorite story? Just to sort of, you know, just a real quick one. What’s been your favorite story as you’ve been assessing training?
00:01:00:03 – 00:01:13:21
Scott Sanders
Seeing churches launched, talking with denominational leaders, getting around the place, trying to forest up as a network to be multiplying and starting new things all across the network. What’s your what’s the favorite moment of 2025?
00:01:13:23 – 00:01:34:05
Derek Hanna
It’s tricky to pick one, isn’t it? Like picking a favorite child. I’m not, I you know, there’s lots of things that have happened, over the past little while. I think for me, orange evangelical is, a church. And one of the guys at the, well, and really think the last year they, they launched a, a city campus.
00:01:34:05 – 00:01:53:17
Derek Hanna
Nice. Millom. Was the lead of that church, and, look, I was just checking in with nice a little while ago, saying he’s had some pretty significant health issues for the past six, seven years. Trinity College, he wasn’t sure how that would all turn out. He ended up leading this plant. Checked in with him a few weeks ago to see how he’s doing.
00:01:53:19 – 00:02:16:18
Derek Hanna
He said after I’ve launched, he. Yeah. Under God. Thankfully, his health is really good. He said the plant is growing and they’re about to finish this second law. Of course, seeing people become Christians. So just that that for me, that little moment of saying God’s graciousness to him personally, I’m very thankful for that. Seeing God’s grace as to orange just they have they’ve pushed through some hard changes and they’ve done the courageous stepping planting.
00:02:16:20 – 00:02:22:15
Derek Hanna
And what they’re seeing is, is new life from it. Just some bits in that I’ve. Yeah. Really technology. So.
00:02:22:19 – 00:02:48:10
Scott Sanders
Yeah. Well, I’m looking forward to hearing more of those stories, but for now, you’ve press play on the one thing. What last year’s church launches are teaching the rest of us. So, Derek, I mean, it’s kind of a it’s an interesting topic. You know, church plants, them showing and teaching us. Can you kind of give shape to this conversation that we’re about to have?
00:02:48:12 – 00:02:53:20
Derek Hanna
Well, am I led to do a church planting spill here? Is that you can. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:02:53:20 – 00:02:56:21
Scott Sanders
Go off gov script and, and forest off a church planting.
00:02:56:23 – 00:03:17:22
Derek Hanna
I don’t feel like it’s off script. It feels like every time I’m talking to people I say something because I genuinely believe it. And I think, I think we should all believe it as well, because I think it’s a biblical and scriptural look that the whole thing about church planting we do is those little phrases. New churches reach new people, and I want to be careful with the things church plants have taught us, because we don’t want to set church plants up as the the only people reaching people or the only way we can learn.
00:03:18:03 – 00:03:43:11
Derek Hanna
But the realities of church plants is, when we do plant churches, they do reach new people. They do do new things. But under God, the whole point of church planning, there’s that Wagner quote, the Under God church plants most effective strategy, most effective, the most effective strategy. Everyone uses that one. Like that was it not Bebe Warfield, who’s the I like the way I do evangelism better than the way you don’t, exact those quotes go.
00:03:43:11 – 00:04:01:17
Derek Hanna
Right. But look biblically for me, theologically for me. I, I want to reach in Australia. I wanna reach the 95% of people who don’t know Jesus. And so we’ve got to work out how we do that. We’ve got to work out how we do it within our theological bounds, which I we think, I think the local church is the centerpiece of what God is doing.
00:04:01:20 – 00:04:17:22
Derek Hanna
He creates it through the gospel. He draws people in to fellowship with each other. He matures in Christ like it’s in the local church and the local church reaches the lost. In that context, by being the light on the hill, proclaiming the gospel, living out what this new creation will be. And so church planning, we need to reach people.
00:04:17:22 – 00:04:42:12
Derek Hanna
One of the ways in which we do that, and one of the ways which we know works effectively, is by planting new churches. Now, I’m not saying that’s the only thing we need to do, but what we see, I think, as an expression of our biblical desire to see the lost one, to be reconciled, to cross. My argument is we need to more deliberately work at have one both have utilize the resources we have in established church as a gospel resource.
00:04:42:12 – 00:05:00:06
Derek Hanna
We have. But two part of that has to be we need to be more bold about planting more churches, because new churches do reach new people. And that is close to our heart as a network. So theologically, for me, it’s not just about getting the numbers up. It’s not just about having more churches, it’s about reaching the lost.
00:05:00:12 – 00:05:11:19
Derek Hanna
And this is a way in which we then have biblical bounds and commitments, the church being the multifaceted wisdom of God I have seen, and we continue to see across the network they reach more people.
00:05:11:21 – 00:05:34:07
Scott Sanders
Well, if you haven’t, if you haven’t seen the, Growth and Change report, can I encourage you to follow the link in the show notes? Use it as something to, fuel your prayers, to to give thanks to God for, there are some great stories in it. We want to keep, putting in front of the, the network as well some of the things that we’re, learning, we want to identify the trends that we’re seeing.
00:05:34:07 – 00:05:53:10
Scott Sanders
We want to celebrate gospel fruit. It’s something that I’ve really enjoyed this year as a team. We’ve been really, really working hard each week to be prayerfully sharing the stories of, of transformation and change that we’re, we’re hearing just in, in the work that we’re, saying and doing. And so, we want to keep, encouraging.
00:05:53:14 – 00:06:01:12
Scott Sanders
Yeah. Growth and change. So, Derek, what are we seeing in the church planning space?
00:06:01:14 – 00:06:07:01
Derek Hanna
Well, Joe, we start with some kind of numbers that we’re seeing from them and things like that. Yeah, yeah.
00:06:07:03 – 00:06:08:11
Scott Sanders
Yeah yeah, yeah.
00:06:08:13 – 00:06:09:05
Derek Hanna
Look see.
00:06:09:09 – 00:06:10:24
Scott Sanders
Do that, do that, that again.
00:06:11:01 – 00:06:13:03
Derek Hanna
Is that. But is that what the question is there or is it.
00:06:13:09 – 00:06:16:17
Scott Sanders
You know, I’m more I reckon more. Yes. To a little bit of the, the numbers.
00:06:16:17 – 00:06:24:19
Derek Hanna
But also launch into two stories like get it get into the bones of it okay. So question. Okay. What are we seeing in church points. Yeah. There are.
00:06:24:21 – 00:06:31:14
Speaker 3
Great. Can we also just start. Can we be careful not to touch the mic or knock it like I feel like.
00:06:31:16 – 00:06:33:03
Derek Hanna
When you like that.
00:06:33:05 – 00:06:34:01
Speaker 3
Okay.
00:06:34:03 – 00:06:41:22
Derek Hanna
Sorry, sorry. That’s my voice. That annoying sound is my voice. Bethany, I can’t do anything about that.
00:06:41:24 – 00:06:48:06
Scott Sanders
I’ve just gotten used to it. So, Derek, what are some encouraging trends that we’re seeing from new churches?
00:06:48:08 – 00:07:11:24
Derek Hanna
What if. Well, yeah. Okay, let’s call on trends. But here’s two examples of things which I think we are seeing emerge. The more confident the churches across the nation, the network we’re working with, we see different things emerging over time and may be gaining a bit of traction. I’ll give you two examples. One is I we’re starting to see churches work in partnership together to plant churches.
00:07:12:01 – 00:07:31:20
Derek Hanna
So we’ve seen a few of those over the past few years just represent Queensland at the moment to two in Queensland past few years, Centenary Ave were planted out of three churches a few years ago, three churches combined to plant one new church at centenary. But Ben and Faith hope with and your Deb Faulkner, they’re leading that church.
00:07:31:22 – 00:07:55:09
Derek Hanna
That’s a complex task. And that’s hugely sacrificial for church as well. But that was one. But last year as well, we saw a new church in Yarrabah, which is in Queensland as well, two churches, timber Mountain and central, Ripley, Valley with Pierre. They both combined to plant a church in Yarrow Baobab, which is sort of halfway between in there.
00:07:55:11 – 00:08:12:21
Derek Hanna
Pierre done all of the training of the plant. Both had a few people from there, and they worked together to start a new church. And that church is, now too big to the centers moving in and trying to work out some logistical questions, while they begin to reach people. So, look, there are two kind of trends I think we’re seeing.
00:08:12:21 – 00:08:17:13
Derek Hanna
Oh, there’s the one that church is planting in partnership is, is happening.
00:08:17:15 – 00:08:38:02
Scott Sanders
Which, which was it was held for the conference, last year. You put that that kind of circle diagram which said we know where and how a church can be involved in multiplication. Yeah. As as simple as just being prayerful about, you know, praying for praying for a church meant praying for church planters in a region, you know, too, as complex as being a resource in churches.
00:08:38:04 – 00:09:09:09
Scott Sanders
You know, he’s developing a pipeline and a pathway and a, you know, a whole kind of residency and program to actually see, you know, new locations and church plants launches. There’s everything in between that, that a church can be involved in. But that partnership that you’re talking about, that intentional partnership between churches to actually see a new church birthed into existence in a region, and something that’s, you know, of them, but but hopefully going to have its own, you know, its own DNA, its, its own growth, over time and its own gospel footprint reaching out into that local community.
00:09:09:12 – 00:09:10:22
Scott Sanders
Okay. So that’s one it’s good. Yeah.
00:09:10:24 – 00:09:32:02
Derek Hanna
Yeah, it’s good just to pick up that and I’ll give you the second, trend. But but on that one it begins with prayer. And that’s not just a throwaway line. That’s where any church who’s going to eventually maybe more directly involved, less tambourine was. It just begins by prayerfully raising the need of the lost, that builds the culture of looking at which rather than in we can be sacrificial because we have such a heart for those people.
00:09:32:06 – 00:09:51:01
Derek Hanna
That’s where it work with with Dave and Tambourine Mountain Presby. That’s where they started. But the second one, here’s the second one. Second story that there is an intentionality, that we’re seeing in some churches when a church deliberately engages in the activity of pursuing church planning, even if it’s 12 months time or five years time.
00:09:51:06 – 00:10:18:16
Derek Hanna
But they deliberately thinking of putting on the table, what would it look like for us to move towards church planting? When a church is deliberately intentional like that, we are seeing those churches playing not just one church, but go on to be a multiplying church. We are seeing some early days of that. There are some large churches in a network who have been directly and indirectly responsible for a quite a number of churches across the nation, but what I’m putting forward here is it’s not a size of church issue.
00:10:18:16 – 00:10:40:22
Derek Hanna
This one, we’re seeing some smaller churches who deliberately want to pursue church planning. I mentioned Ripley moment ago. They would be one of them. But churches who deliberately want to pursue church playing a threat. So throw resources that even where the resource pool is smaller, they’re seeing new churches. Two examples. Providence in Perth, the whole network, actually Providence in Perth.
00:10:40:24 – 00:11:01:16
Derek Hanna
But if I was just to put Providence Bay’s ward with Paul Young, on the table in this one, there’s an intentionality about, Paul within that network and within Providence, Bayswater, which is a church, plants only 3 or 4 years old in and of itself. They’ve they’ve launched an off site, service there. So it’s a it’s a kind of pseudo church plant underneath that, a multi-site congregation.
00:11:01:18 – 00:11:09:24
Derek Hanna
They did that. I think it was late last year, I, I probably, I believe this April last year, just.
00:11:10:02 – 00:11:10:17
Scott Sanders
Last year.
00:11:10:20 – 00:11:33:01
Derek Hanna
Last year or 20, 25, and they have taken on as I did, that last year, I took on a church funding residence. Papo and and Abigail Lowe, they took them on in order to plant next year. And so they will have seen in four years time base would have planted the evening offsite, church planted. And hopefully under God, this new church plant.
00:11:33:03 – 00:11:55:24
Derek Hanna
They’ve been intentional. It’s been hard. It’s been costly. But they’re they are committed to reaching Perth kids. The second one again we’re talking smaller churches here. Prof. Bayswater has seen, you know, amazing growth under God. People there and, and people coming to us as well. But they would be under 200 still the line laneway church.
00:11:56:01 – 00:12:17:16
Derek Hanna
Josh and Sarah Allen in Footscray down in Melbourne. They would be probably 130, 140. I think I need to check the numbers. I’m sorry. Josh and Sarah if I’ve got that wrong. There. But again, I put that out there. Not a 500 person church. They, took on a church my resident, a few years ago and planted, that’s been out for a year.
00:12:17:16 – 00:12:34:05
Derek Hanna
He still part of the staff team to some of because they work so all together. But Josh is desperately trying to at this point even struggling with budget, even wrestling with building, even not having the money to put one on. He keeps bugging me and I love it about where is that next church planning resident going to come from?
00:12:34:05 – 00:12:45:01
Derek Hanna
Because we need to reach Tarneit and beyond. So there’s an intentionality there that we’re seeing when people devote energy and prayer and resources to that, they seek new church plants. And so.
00:12:45:01 – 00:12:51:11
Scott Sanders
What are you talking about? What you talk about there is, is being intentional about building a, a leadership pipeline.
00:12:51:13 – 00:13:14:13
Derek Hanna
Yeah, absolutely. But it’s more than just building a relationship. That’s part of it. Absolutely part of it. But it is the it is the directing of prayer and energy and vision, outside of the immediate church building to not just the barn here, but the whole fields. There were saying, get the leadership problem. We need to find and rise up place to do that.
00:13:14:19 – 00:13:36:03
Derek Hanna
And we need to allocate resources when they come to do it. It’s going to be financially costly for us. It’s going to be hard for us as a community because every time we bring someone in, send them out, we’re going to carve off some of our friends who we love dearly. But, I’m not saying every church has to do this, but I’m saying, I don’t think the size of the church impacts the effect you can have on multiplying planting, actually.
00:13:36:04 – 00:13:54:13
Scott Sanders
So, so what would you know? Someone’s listening in. They’re saying, okay, if you felt I was going to say I’m too small. But, but there’s actually, there’s actually lots of churches in Moléculaire out there, and, and we don’t need another one. What we desperately need is I need more leaders in in my existing church.
00:13:54:15 – 00:14:13:16
Scott Sanders
You know, what would you say that person who’s who’s saying, you know, we’ve been struggling to find, you know, a kids insurance worker. We’ve been struggling to find a sister minister. So we don’t need other church plants. We we just need, you know, someone to come and be part of our team so that we can just do things more effectively where we are,
00:14:13:18 – 00:14:38:13
Derek Hanna
Am I? It would be, maybe. Could be. But. But I’ll look behind that. And this is a conversation that we have regularly, because there is a, there’s a dynamic there that we want to respect when we plant a church in an area, we’re not critiquing other ministry, and we shouldn’t be. And we talk about this, a plant boot camp, plant is on asking for permission to go in and plant because there’s lots of people, but they’re not going in either.
00:14:38:13 – 00:14:59:16
Derek Hanna
And saying, hey, the Gospels never be preachy before we’re going to bring the gospel to it. This is an area so that there’s an untruth to that. We want to be really sensitive about, really careful about. But at the same time, at best in any suburb, at best in any suburb, I suspect we would see 94, 93, 94% of people who don’t know Jesus.
00:14:59:16 – 00:15:22:03
Derek Hanna
Usually it’s probably up 96, 97% at best. That is a huge amount of people know there are places in the country we think it might be a little bit different, and you can have five churches there. But in most places across Australia, the existing churches, even where they’re faithfully teaching the Bible, they’re not reaching 95% of the population.
00:15:22:05 – 00:15:45:17
Derek Hanna
And so, yes, I understand the need for, for churches that need people to go into teams. But the question we’re trying to wrestle with first and foremost isn’t how do we fill positions in churches? I would argue the the question missionary first, big miss geologically that we’re asking is how do we reach the lost? What’s the most effective way to do that?
00:15:45:19 – 00:16:03:12
Derek Hanna
Now, if I’m shepherding a church, I’ve got two numbers I’m interested in, really. One is the number of people that God has given me to these people running for me. Not just numbers people. These are the people, but the other number I’ve got to be concerned about is the wider work. So maybe it’s more effective for my team to grow and have people on so that we can plant more.
00:16:03:12 – 00:16:19:15
Derek Hanna
Maybe that’s the answer. Maybe, though, the answer is actually, for that person who might come on my team, maybe it’s better for them to plant. So it’s a bit of a both, and it’s tricky. I want to be really sensitive and say there’s not one answer to that. It’s really hard when someone plants next to you.
00:16:19:17 – 00:16:37:13
Derek Hanna
I know that I’ve experienced that. I’ve been that person as well. So I’ve been on both sides of that. But, part of what we need to keep doing, no matter which side or on, is wrestling with the question, how is it under God, we’ve reached this 95% of people with the gospel. We got to keep pushing into that.
00:16:37:15 – 00:16:58:12
Scott Sanders
So, Derek, you’ve presented the, The Circle to the network last year. Every church getting involved in, in multiplication, can you give us some helpful next steps for, you know, the average church to be thinking about, moving towards church planning, so that we might see more people, one to Jesus all across the nation.
00:16:58:14 – 00:17:24:21
Derek Hanna
Yeah. Look, there is a if we just think specifically church planning, if you go to the Rich Australia website, there is a route straight to accommodate you. Forward slash multiplication. There’s a page we’ve dedicated to helping churches think through how they can be involved. We’re not saying that every church will play church, but I do want to say I would love every church across the country to be playing, praying for new churches to both happen and praying for new churches when they do happen.
00:17:24:23 – 00:17:42:01
Derek Hanna
I would love that to be so. You’ve got to be informed about what’s happening. If you sign up to our prayer points, you’ll get information about these church plans and what’s happening, what’s coming up, what you can pray for them. I would love every church across Australia, but the question next I would be asking churches is, well, what would your next step be to that?
00:17:42:03 – 00:18:08:01
Derek Hanna
If you if you might be in a context or a situation where you could take on a church planning resident, you could contribute people to a church plant that was happening sacrificially in that you could become a sending church. What is your vision for reaching the area that you’ve got? And part of the answer that I think in nearly every area across Australia, there might be a few, but every year I can think of part of the inspiration.
00:18:08:01 – 00:18:31:23
Derek Hanna
That area is new churches. And so, we need to work at how we not be precious about, the new churches that’s down the road, but one for the church planning and doing that church planning to be humble, godly, thoughtful, deliberate, not cheap. Stealing, reaching the lost in that, doing it wisely, yes, but for the people whose, they are in the area already who are watching that new church.
00:18:32:00 – 00:18:39:06
Derek Hanna
We also want to be in partnership together in saying, what does it look like to do this in order to reach Australia?
00:18:39:08 – 00:18:48:13
Scott Sanders
Well, Derek, I always love hearing you, talk about church planning. And it’s always great to hear stories across the network of what, what?
00:18:48:15 – 00:18:56:20
Derek Hanna
Hold on. So I just go back, my headphones drop dead, so I go back to your bit there. Scott. Sorry, Bethany. I just had to take them off. It did something of mine.
00:18:56:22 – 00:19:33:14
Scott Sanders
It’s always great hearing, stories from across the network of what God is doing, through church plants. And, yeah, I love saying not only partnerships, but also, love saying where, you know, churches are, intentionally investing in people. You know, just the story you spoke about of Nathan, at Orange Evangelical. I going to be in conversation with him, at NTA probably ten, ten years ago, ten years ago when he was, you know, doing MTS you NSW and and he’s, you know, started talking with us about, you know, potentially church planning what that might look like, you know, and then, you know, to, to hear you kick off with that
00:19:33:16 – 00:19:53:19
Scott Sanders
was I was just so encouraged and and thankful that that he’s, he’s persisted in doing that. You know, I’ve over time and, and in a church that is wanting to see it happen as well. So what’s the one thing, Derek, that you want to say about last year’s church launches?
00:19:53:21 – 00:20:20:23
Derek Hanna
I’m so thankful, that we are seeing a growing momentum across Australia in established, and new churches in partnering together reach the country through church planning. I’m just seeing the beginning of something which I’m hoping we can keep praying for and leaning into, that will gain momentum. So in 2030, 40 years time, we see hundreds and hundreds more churches reaching thousands and 10,000 more people.
00:20:21:00 – 00:20:39:04
Scott Sanders
Right. Well, as always, there’ll be a toolbox, in the shownotes. So you’ll see that on whatever podcast app you have. But also, if you go to our, one thing website as well, you’ll be able to see a whole bunch of links, to the episode. If you’re looking for more resources as well, just head to our online resource library.
00:20:39:06 – 00:20:55:22
Scott Sanders
Look above at the, resources drop down and you’ll see the online resources library. But it from this episode today, I’m going to link you to the Growth and Change report from this year. You’ll also be able to see reports from the last few years as well. So you can see what God has continue to be doing across the network.
00:20:55:24 – 00:21:17:08
Scott Sanders
A great podcast if you are listening and going, hey, we want to start moving towards being intentional. Would better to jump on to the church planting podcast as well. 25 plus episodes are going to help you think about everything that you need to think about, in terms of launching. And then just another shout out to that forward slash multiplication, page as well.
00:21:17:10 – 00:21:38:22
Scott Sanders
Every church can be involved in some way in multiplication. So jump on that page and you can see how you can get your church starting to think about that. If you if you found this, helpful, well, I’d love it. I’d love it if you could share the growth and change report with people in your church who you think might want to be generous towards reach Australia and help us to continue to resource this vision as well.
00:21:38:24 – 00:22:01:17
Scott Sanders
Always fun. You know, stories are really, useful in, you know, helping people, think about where they can be, you know, generously giving their, giving their resources, say, gospel ministry happen. We love a whole bunch of people who just continue to generously fund and resource, the registrar vision. So, send that off and encourage them to, to give to reach Australia as well.
00:22:01:19 – 00:22:03:05
Scott Sanders
I’m Scott Sanders.
00:22:03:07 – 00:22:05:07
Derek Hanna
I’m there kind of chatting.
