How can movies open the door to meaningful conversations about faith?

Russ Matthews from Reel Dialogue joins us to share how films can help spark gospel conversations in everyday life. We talk about why asking good questions and listening well matters, how couples can partner in mission together, and what Russ has learned from using mainstream movies as a starting point for sharing Jesus.

  • The power of asking good questions and listening in evangelism

  • Why Russ wrote Real Marriage as a story, not a manual

  • How couples can work together for mission in everyday life

  • Using mainstream movies as conversation starters for faith

  • What Reel Dialogue offers churches: resources, training, and events 


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TRANSCRIPT:
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00;00;08;18 – 00;00;27;13 Pete Did I use and welcome to the One Thing. It’s a podcast designed to give you one solid practical tip for gospel centered industry every week. Blessings. Brought to you by Rachel Soraya. And we want to see thousands of healthy, evangelistic and multiplying churches. And today I got a special guest in Ross Matthews from now is it third space real dialog. 00;00;27;16 – 00;00;29;21 Pete How do I how do I explain where you’re from? 00;00;29;23 – 00;00;43;18 Russ The best way to do it just say real dialog. I found that we were having this discussion with another group the other day. And just just do real dialog because it’s real dialog that come and then it gets you two third space. So it’s fine with that. We get we’ll be talking I’m sure about third space, but from real dialog. 00;00;43;19 – 00;00;56;06 Pete Real dialog. Yeah. They watch the link in the show notes. You’ll see it they here. So now one of the things that you do in real dialog is you do maybe reviews. That’s great. And I know the worst question to ask the reviewer is what’s your favorite movie? 00;00;56;07 – 00;00;56;18 Russ That’s very. 00;00;56;18 – 00;01;03;06 Pete Hard. So let me ask you, what is a movie that you have given one star to? That’s the bad one. One star two recently? 00;01;03;06 – 00;01;09;06 Russ Yeah, recently it would actually was the Old Guard two, which is a it’s a the sequel on Netflix that. 00;01;09;07 – 00;01;13;11 Pete I saw that on the weekend. I wish you had told me that before I saw it. 00;01;13;11 – 00;01;32;09 Russ Oh, because I actually enjoyed the first one, but this one was, a bit of a dog’s breakfast. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, it’s just I, I we we tend to give ones to poor storyline, poor character development, tone, key themes and things like that. And they just didn’t seem to know what they were trying to do with this one. 00;01;32;10 – 00;01;42;23 Pete I was going to say that movie mistakes. Tick, tick. Yeah, it was all of those. The whole storyline. It was I was I’m looking for it on World’s Worst Car Wreck. So it was just a disaster. 00;01;42;24 – 00;01;49;18 Russ Well, and it’s set up to be like a the second in a trilogy, I believe, but I don’t want to see the third one after seeing the second one. 00;01;49;20 – 00;01;54;11 Pete That was the other thing I didn’t know was the second one in the trilogy. I’m waiting. Oh, wait, we finished. 00;01;54;13 – 00;01;55;03 Russ Exactly. 00;01;55;08 – 00;01;57;07 Pete Why are the credits rolling? Right? 00;01;57;10 – 00;02;07;20 Russ Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, anyway, seeing humor through and getting pull out the sword was actually pretty cool. Again, you know, for your kill bill. But but besides that, that was about the only thing really worthwhile seeing that. 00;02;07;22 – 00;02;11;24 Pete Oh, yeah. Okay. So if you, if you haven’t seen it, don’t see it. 00;02;11;27 – 00;02;12;16 Russ That’s right. 00;02;12;18 – 00;02;29;22 Pete Yeah, I anyway, we’re not here to talk about your movie reviews, although that might come up, but, we, we are here to talk about your book, some of the books that you’ve written, basically the last one. So for now, you’ve pressed play on another episode of the one thing, marriage on the big screen mission in real life. 00;02;29;25 – 00;02;53;10 Ad Today’s podcast is brought to you by Safe Ministry check. At Safe Ministry. Check. We’re passionate about partnering with Australian ministries like yours to simplify safeguarding our all in one tool provides accessible, cost effective training, automated screening and a streamlined system to manage your compliance requirements with ease. Is it safe? Ministry? Check RT.com. You. And now back to the podcast. 00;02;53;12 – 00;03;11;21 Pete From Russ, you’ve written, you’ve written three books now, right? So there’s the word becomes film. That’s right. Make is quest. And now you’ve just bought out real marriage. What’s what’s the progression of these books? How are they kind of connected together. Because Makers Quest doesn’t quite fit in with the other two. How do they all fit together exactly. 00;03;11;28 – 00;03;18;06 Russ And that’s actually a pretty good it’s I think thankfully you’ve actually read them and so you’d actually know that they don’t all. 00;03;18;08 – 00;03;19;19 Pete Fit to connect. 00;03;19;22 – 00;03;38;25 Russ And that the word becomes film was the initial book and the initial book we’ve talked about in the past is really kind of meant to be, a pictorial or a verbal account of how you would do real dialog, but really showing to men growing through film and faith to be able to kind of grow the real marriage is really meant to be a prequel to that. 00;03;38;25 – 00;03;58;20 Russ And it’s primarily it has to be a prequel for anybody who would who’s actually read the first book would understand why it’d be a necessity of being a prequel because of Finn Rohan and, but it it really fleshes it out more. And we’ll talk about this more, I think is looking at how we can do evangelism as couples. 00;03;58;23 – 00;04;18;07 Russ You know, really one of my best partners to be able to do ministry and evangelism with would be my wife, Kathy, and to be able to do that with her is actually just fantastic. To be able to kind of do outreach with, with couples, you know, and so this kind of, is a slightly longer book. So you have to kind of build up both characters, both of the husband and wife. 00;04;18;10 – 00;04;40;28 Russ But it’s very similar as far as method and style to the first book in that kind of being a narrative in regards to that. Now the We’re the Makers quest, funny enough, actually, I wrote, Real Marriage before Maker’s Quest, but I released Maker’s Quest first. But Maker’s Quest is really more for teens and really looking at kind of a Pilgrim’s Progress version of how you use film and faith in the discussion. 00;04;41;00 – 00;04;41;20 Russ 00;04;41;23 – 00;05;02;17 Pete Now, I want to I think the whole thing of doing evangelism as a couple is a really interesting. I’m going to come back to that. Okay. Because we tend to think of evangelism either as just it’s an individual game or it’s a, you know, it’s a church thing. It’s a course thing. But to think of it, for those of us who are married as a married thing, but I just want to the idea of film theory to evangelism, just just talk me through. 00;05;02;23 – 00;05;06;02 Pete How did you get to that? Because that’s what these books are really about. 00;05;06;05 – 00;05;27;04 Russ Yeah. You know what the thing I love about it is that over, if you can believe it, we’ve been kind of doing this sort of ministries for about the past 20 years. And at City Bible Forum, one of the things we do is really seeing every opportunity to be able to see how we can start the conversation and use just our natural environment to be able to point people towards the message of the Bible or the gospel, or both. 00;05;27;10 – 00;06;01;21 Russ And so what we did about 10 or 12 years ago is kind of looking at that through the lens of film and being able to see how we be able to use film as a way of pointing to the stories that we see in films. And these are just mainstream films. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a Christian film, but really just mainstream films and how every story really points back to if you want to see the Metanarrative or the big story or God’s story, and how we can naturally progress in our conversations towards God through pretty much any film and any story. 00;06;01;24 – 00;06;22;06 Pete All right, I want to I want to move to the book just on it. Great. Real marriage. Who did you write this for? Because I’m reading this and I’m thinking, oh, it’s a great story of, one couple helping another couple to understand what Jesus has done. It’s great. But is it written for me to kind of go, hey, look how easy this is. 00;06;22;06 – 00;06;36;04 Pete Because I read this way, and this is this is easy. I could be doing this right. Or is it actually written for the the other person who’s going, I’m exploring faith. This actually explains this. This actually takes me through that journey. Did you have in mind when you write this? 00;06;36;06 – 00;07;07;28 Russ Yes. Yes, I actually do both. Yeah. So actually you hit both because really, that’s kind of in our realm of Third Space City Bible form and real dialog. What we do is really writing to two audiences, which is kind of a unique thing, because you think you won’t have a target audience. But what we really are striving to do is have resources that if as a Christian, I was able to pick it up, yeah, the goal would be that you be able to pick up a book like this and go, oh, I could do this, or we as a couple could do this very thing that we could use the discussion guides, we could use 00;07;07;28 – 00;07;29;10 Russ the films, we could all do the same things that are going on within the story. It may be a different story than what you get in in the book itself, but yet you could do it yourselves. While if one of my friends who’s not a Christian yet, but might be interested in what I do, or I’m just may be interested in the book and they were to pick it up, they too would be able to travel through this journey. 00;07;29;10 – 00;07;51;14 Russ They could do it on their own, or they may even be able to find somebody else to be able to do it. And so we write it in a tone and a fashion that they could probably see themselves in the book, but maybe is a different character. You know, I had a it’s funny, my first book, I had a friend of mine who came up to me after he read it, and he he’s not a Christian yet, but he he said to me, he goes, hey, I think we had that conversation. 00;07;51;16 – 00;08;10;10 Russ And I said, well, I’ve had conversations like that. I don’t know if I used the conversation that you and I had, but I said, that’s great. Well, let’s continue the conversation then, because I’d love to know what you felt was the answer right in the book, or was it different or all this sort of thing? So I think that the book is really intended to be for both. 00;08;10;10 – 00;08;22;12 Russ And so it really can be. You could hand it to a friend who’s not a Christian, and they would be able to engage with the story just as easily as somebody who is a Christian, even though the purposes of what they’re doing might come out different in the end. 00;08;22;15 – 00;08;38;18 Pete Is that why you wrote it as a story? Because you’ve written a story you haven’t written a how to manual on. This is how to use film to, you know, explain who Jesus is. Although you do some training in that. We do. Yeah. But is that what you written as a story? Yeah. Or is it just that you just wanted to write a story? 00;08;38;18 – 00;08;55;07 Russ Oh, no. You know, it’s funny. Well, okay, so going back all the way back to before either any of these books became a reality, somebody asked me to consider writing a book about real dialog, and I said, okay, great. And so I wrote a few chapters. We sat down and looked at it, and it had to be the most boring thing, right? 00;08;55;12 – 00;09;12;03 Russ I mean, and I hate to say that, you know, it’s is, but it was because it’s a how to how to do it, which isn’t a bad thing, but I’m not sure too many people would be really excited about it as much. And on top of it, you’re dealing with movies. And so this is an exciting realm. It’s very different. 00;09;12;03 – 00;09;31;00 Russ It engages the ideas and thoughts in your head. And so you be able to see all these picture forms. And also I came from a background in business where some of my favorite books were allegories, or they were kind of these parables, if you want to. So, you know, it’s death by meeting all these different ones. 00;09;31;00 – 00;09;33;29 Pete But Patrick Lynch, Yianni, this is his world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;09;33;29 – 00;09;51;29 Russ And so in the end they resonate. I can still tell you those stories. And I read those books, you know, years and years ago. And so that’s what I kind of wanted to tap into. And it just kind of naturally flowed because these characters, even though I’m not in the book, you know what? You’ve kind of lived through some of those experiences. 00;09;51;29 – 00;10;01;14 Russ Or maybe you want to. And so I really felt like the story form really lend itself to this much better than just kind of a how to book. 00;10;01;16 – 00;10;19;23 Pete I think that’s that’s what I loved about it, is that it wasn’t just telling me this is how to do it, it was actually showing me. And so I could sit there and I could watch fin and I go, oh yeah, okay. So that’s when you don’t say anything. That’s when you ask the question. That’s when you actually you need to step in and actually say something somewhere along the way. 00;10;19;23 – 00;10;32;07 Pete So yeah, I want to come back to Finn, but let’s, let’s come back to the idea of marriage. Okay. What is why why have you written this about evangelism as a married couple? What’s what’s so powerful about evangelism as a couple? 00;10;32;14 – 00;10;49;21 Russ You know what I love? What you just said it just a brief moment ago is that, the gift that we’ve been given for those who are married? And again, please want to understand that, anybody can read this book and appreciate it, but especially for those who are married, one of the greatest gifts I’ve been given. 00;10;49;21 – 00;11;26;13 Russ But also, I think that that God has given mankind is the gift of marriage for those who are given that opportunity. And so to be able to think about doing outreach as a couple is it shouldn’t be foreign to us. But yet, funny enough, I feel like most evangelism courses and the things that we do tend to be for the individual and having individual conversations, which isn’t a bad thing, but I’ve actually found that in most relationships, the deeper relationships I have tend to be with those people who I have a relationship also with my wife and as a couple, and then also to be able to watch her in action, her bill to answer 00;11;26;13 – 00;11;47;20 Russ questions that I wouldn’t and I think you’d see that comes out in this book that often there’s questions that wives have and husbands have that might be different, but yet to be able to be in an atmosphere where we’re able to kind of see that kind of fleshed out is actually very special. And I think that it is personally, and I’ve really found that I it’s a joy for me to be able to do that with my wife, Cathy. 00;11;47;23 – 00;12;08;02 Russ But then on top of it, to be able to do something like this. And what I love about real dialog, too, is that, we do the Finding God in film training, and I love it with most pastors. They’re going, well, we don’t even really market it as a or sell it as a, an evangelism course, but it is evangelism but with movies. 00;12;08;02 – 00;12;23;14 Russ Right. And so it’s just a different way of doing it. But yet, you know, also you don’t necessarily have to think about like when you’re doing this, that this is evangelism. This is just kind of our natural thing. What do we do when we invite somebody over for dinner? We go out for dinner with them and we start talking with them. 00;12;23;14 – 00;12;31;28 Russ And then how do you move the progressive towards something deeper than just maybe your favorite football team or what happened, with the family last week? 00;12;32;00 – 00;12;48;18 Pete Yeah. And I also want to highlight that if people are listening to this go, oh, that’s okay, but I’ve got kids or they’ve got kids or you actually deal with that, like the kids are actually part of the whole deal and it all fit in. So exactly. It’s a messy kind of world. And so that you’ve written, but it’s a real world. 00;12;48;22 – 00;12;49;02 Pete So yeah. 00;12;49;03 – 00;12;52;15 Russ Hopefully the story’s not a mess. But I believe in the father. 00;12;52;18 – 00;13;13;08 Pete Well, in some ways it’s kind of embracing the. So that’s what life is like. So yeah, that’s exactly it. Now, I want to talk about Finn a little bit because he’s, he’s your, your main kind of character in terms of presenting who Jesus is. Right. And what I noticed, particularly in the first part of me, real marriage especially, he spends very little time talking. 00;13;13;10 – 00;13;21;26 Pete He spends just a lot of time just asking questions and going, hey, go read, go watch this movie and ask this question or these two questions usually. 00;13;21;26 – 00;13;22;19 Russ Okay, it’s for three. 00;13;22;19 – 00;13;38;16 Pete Questions with three questions. So yeah, that’s what he does. He doesn’t sort of he I mean he does get to the point where because evangelism is a proclamation of it is. But why do you. Yeah. How does that work? I mean, the curiosity and the listening. How important is that in, do you think, in terms of financial ism? 00;13;38;17 – 00;14;13;04 Russ Oh, yeah, I think it’s critical. And I think it’s something that we don’t do a very good job of when we train people when it comes to evangelism, is that we really say that it’s a proclamation thing, which it is, but really it needs to be a listening thing. And what I love about really well thought out questions and open ended questions, ones that can’t be answered yes or no, is that you just get a glimpse into their lives and their worlds, and also even what might seem like innocuous questions like, hey, so tell me your favorite film or something you really enjoyed over watching over the past year. 00;14;13;07 – 00;14;31;06 Russ It just really opens up your world, their world to you, because it kind of gives you their worldview why they like this, what they liked about it, what is it they really said about them. And so just to build a listen, because I think we don’t do a very good job of really just listening to what they have to say. 00;14;31;08 – 00;14;48;14 Russ But then on top of it, we’re sitting there and we’re pondering how we’re going to answer them, opposed to just actively listening to them. So really great questions can really open the door to their world. But also I see evangelism as a long game proposition. It’s not necessarily what I’ve got to make sure I get every point of the gospel in this moment. 00;14;48;14 – 00;15;11;09 Russ I get it, I understand the value of that. And you don’t know, are they going to be hit by a bus tomorrow? But in the case they aren’t, what we’re able to do is also build into the relationship. And so I think that evangelism isn’t just something where they’re a project, but they’re a person. So I know that’s a cliche, but it really is one of those things where we’re building into our relationship with them. 00;15;11;09 – 00;15;32;02 Russ So also they trust us in the future because really, it’s the most personal thing you can really go to is looking at where is where their eternal soul is going to spend eternity. To be able to dive in there. Well, they have to really kind of trust you in that. So you have to build that relationship. And I think a great way to start that is asking questions and then really listening to what they have to say. 00;15;32;04 – 00;15;49;09 Pete The other thing that I love about Finn is that, as he’s talking with Lucas, he’s he’s asking questions, but then he’s stepping back and just letting Lucas kind of go, what do I think about that? And he’s stepping through. It’s his journey. He’s not, things not forcing him to go through the journey. He’s actually allowing him. 00;15;49;09 – 00;16;13;05 Pete And it’s really allowing God’s Spirit to work in spring and and eventually the wood to start going to work in him. And so it’s sort of stepping back and letting God do his work by guiding Lucas at the same time. That’s, you know, it’s just a great example of exactly what, all the evangelism that’s there is that is that what film does is that the film kind of give you that kind of thing to be able to have that conversation? 00;16;13;05 – 00;16;16;05 Pete Is it something that the films do that sermons don’t, so to speak? 00;16;16;05 – 00;16;42;25 Russ Oh, yeah, I think so. I think because I think there’s different aspects. There’s one you have the visual depiction, so you’re seeing the story, but I find that, you know, to my shame, I probably can quote more movie quotes than I can Bible passages. Sometimes I you might be able to get the stories, but also what’s interesting is that many times I think I sit there with the disciples and probably remember Jesus’s parables probably better sometimes than the lesson that they’re meant to teach in a lot of ways. 00;16;42;25 – 00;17;02;27 Russ And I think that film gives us that. Also, it lays the groundwork of what you’re really trying to set up. So whatever theme that you see in the the film that’s presented, what is it that you’re kind of, oh, so that’s way and I see how then this complements why you had me read the book of Ruth. You know, it’s a love story. 00;17;03;03 – 00;17;19;11 Russ Okay. I never saw that or never read it before, you know. And so I think the films aren’t necessarily meant to be the gospel. What they are, is meant to do is kind of lay the groundwork delivering for you to have a deeper conversation. Because the theme, kind of helps you point that way. 00;17;19;14 – 00;17;29;00 Pete Now, I know we’re talking about the book, but I just want to step back and just give us a quick pitch for for real dialog. And how does real dialog, what how can it work with a local church? 00;17;29;01 – 00;17;47;10 Russ Oh yeah. So what I well, what we love about real dialog, what it’s grown to over the past few years is probably three key things is when we really try to present resources. So resources like reviews, discussion guides so that if you’re reading our review, just a basic review, you can see whether or not you want to see the film. 00;17;47;10 – 00;17;48;18 Russ But then also there’s always. 00;17;48;20 – 00;17;56;25 Pete I should have done at the start for, the old Guard two. But anyway, I’m going to let that go. Yeah. Sorry. Keep going. Yeah, yeah. So you can look at the review whether you want to watch the movie. 00;17;56;25 – 00;18;15;13 Russ Where do to watch the movie. But then every review has with it, a key talking point where the real dialog is not the only one you actually you can come up with your own, but it might be a key thing that you build to start a conversation with somebody. Or if you’re if your friend who’s not Christian yet reads it, that they will go, oh, I never really thought about that. 00;18;15;13 – 00;18;41;07 Russ Do you know that that is actually a theme that moves us closer to having a discussion about the Bible. So resources. Yeah. Then we also kind of offer, training. So how you do this and as you said at the beginning, it’s not that hard. It’s really not that hard. But I do it all the time. And so it can probably make make it look easier, but yet really to be able to do it and be able to go, oh, so yeah, I could do this with you could do this with books. 00;18;41;07 – 00;18;55;02 Russ You can do this with television shows, you do with a lot of different things that you engage with to be able to use it. So we have the resources, we have the training, but then also we encourage churches to be able to do events. So where they’d be able to run an event, I’d really encourage you to do it like that. 00;18;55;02 – 00;19;21;09 Russ See it a cinema. We’re in the cinemas. Love you. Because especially if you do it like on a Tuesday night or something like that, you fill a cinema, they sell popcorn and you show a film and then you have a panel discussion, and it’s such an easy way to be able to invite your friend to kind of come along, your neighbors, your family, to come along and see you film, but then have a panel discussion where again, it’s not a sermon, but it’s really just kind of teasing out some of the key themes within it. 00;19;21;11 – 00;19;46;18 Russ And it’s amazing how you can easily fill a cinema and how people really love to engage with it. I’m always surprised at how many people actually ask questions. Most of the time we have to stop them at it and and usually it’s something that isn’t a high cost. It just might be a bit of time. So but so it’s, it’s resources, training and events that we really offer real dialog to help you in this whole process of reaching people for Jesus. 00;19;46;25 – 00;19;57;22 Pete Okay. For us, this is the one thing. Let’s come back to the book, real marriage. What’s the one thing you want? Christian movie watchers to take from real marriage? The book. Yeah. 00;19;57;22 – 00;20;17;25 Russ So I would probably what’s fortunately you have right there in the book is kind of taking kind of that real marriage challenge. And so think of one couple that you would like to consider this opportunity of meeting up with and reading the book together, asking questions, maybe watching some movies and see what happens. And again, ask the questions like Finn does and be able to see trusting in the Lord. 00;20;17;25 – 00;20;34;14 Russ As far as being able to do that, I think it would really help to draw back the curtain for you, and you might be surprised what the Lord will do in opening up some not only opportunities of reaching people for Jesus, but also maybe even some new friends. And you might be even surprised. It actually might refresh your own marriage too. 00;20;34;14 – 00;20;40;12 Russ So this is something that we really want to encourage you to just kind of take up the real marriage challenge and see how it works for you. 00;20;40;19 – 00;21;03;11 Pete Okay. Now in the toolbox, we’ve course got the real dialog, website, where you can get the books so you can, make sure that they say, now, here’s the thing. I’m going to give away a free copy of Real Marriage to the first person who emails me resources that reach Australia accommodate you, but you’ve got to give me your physical address so I know where to send the book. 00;21;03;11 – 00;21;16;24 Pete The last time I did this, it was a fiasco because I didn’t know where to send it. So you need to send me your address so I can send it to you. We’ve also got a previous episode where, Russ has been on there. I said anything else you want to put in the toolbox? 00;21;16;28 – 00;21;31;12 Russ Oh, no. I mean, I think that, we we definitely want to encourage you not only check out real marriage, but also the previous book. The word becomes film, but also for your teens. The the makers quest is always a great option to be able to kind of introduce film and faith into their story. 00;21;31;17 – 00;21;34;18 Pete Excellent. Russ, thanks for joining us. 00;21;34;21 – 00;21;37;00 Russ I love being here. This is great. 00;21;37;02 – 00;21;50;20 Pete Now, if you found this, helpful episode, why don’t you share it with your mission team or your spouse if you have one? Or maybe just free, and pass it around on this chat soon. 00;21;50;23 – 00;22;01;01 Pete John. Yeah, but green eggs and ham, it looks so much better in a French accent. And then I like green eggs. And then. And then I like them. Sam-i-am would you like them here or there? No, it wouldn’t let them more. 00;22;01;09 – 00;22;02;02 Russ It just works.